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  1. #1
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    Default Comments on AC 2021 New Line Up?

    Crazy timing imo and more models to be released in November. Scanned the release seemed like mostly BNG and motor mounts all 2s except for Thunder kitty.

  2. #2
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    Can't wait...... was literally going to buy a 2019 XF9000CC last week... this news put a stop on that plan until I see what's coming next month.....I'm like a kid waiting for the JC Penny Christmas catalog.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by shelby369 View Post
    Can't wait...... was literally going to buy a 2019 XF9000CC last week... this news put a stop on that plan until I see what's coming next month.....I'm like a kid waiting for the JC Penny Christmas catalog.
    Yeah Jeff same thing I thought. 2021 release now sure not helping inventory reduction of the now 2020 non currents. Do you know when the 2021 sleds deliver? The hype for 2021 November release sounds good!

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    I think they were forced into this early 2021 release due to all the fake news on forums and social media about them going out of business ...

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    I'm just trying to figure out which model year now is supposed to demand full market value. Is it the 2020's... or the 2021's... or the 2019's or 2018's? Hard to tell since the 2018/2019's are strangely getting really weak discounts for being non-currents, and the 2020's that are around at dealers are not that much more than the 2018/2019 non-currents. Lot of WTH's for those who might be looking to buy a new AC sled this season.

    What a freaking mess they have brought upon themselves. A self-inflicted wound.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICT Sledder View Post
    I'm just trying to figure out which model year now is supposed to demand full market value. Is it the 2020's... or the 2021's... or the 2019's or 2018's? Hard to tell since the 2018/2019's are strangely getting really weak discounts for being non-currents, and the 2020's that are around at dealers are not that much more than the 2018/2019 non-currents. Lot of WTH's for those who might be looking to buy a new AC sled this season.

    What a freaking mess they have brought upon themselves. A self-inflicted wound.
    I get it that we have brand loyal fellas on here.
    You know what makes me brand loyal, value.
    I don't care who is making what, if I get buried on resale I am not going back to buy another the year after.

    ICT is correct, A/C is doing no favors to their fans by trying to change the game.
    Heck, T/A Motorsports still has new 2013 Cats in stock. Can you imagine seeing a new 2013 next to a 2021 on the showroom? Cat should have managed those old sleds..idiots.

    Bear

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    I am going back and forth as to whether Cat has a silhouette of a new sled on their website. I looks to be an Alpha but then again not. There are a few things different about it compared to the pictures if other models on the same web page. I guess I will find out if there is a new sled when Cat releases the rest of the pride in November.

    Also, so much for the rumor mill of Textron discontinuing Cat. I guess a few people on this site is eating some crow.

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    2021's will be available to order through April for delivery next Fall - they aren't going to be making them early. Same deal as in 2020 - snow check only. The 2021's they've shown so far are all BNG. They hinted at having something new to show in mid-november. If they don't that will be a lame release.

    Also they need to come out with their discounts on the leftovers soon. The 18's and 19's that are out there are priced higher than the 2020's were for snow check. They aren't going to clear those many of those until the discounts come out.

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    Yamaha said they will show 2025's soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    2021's will be available to order through April for delivery next Fall - they aren't going to be making them early. Same deal as in 2020 - snow check only. The 2021's they've shown so far are all BNG. They hinted at having something new to show in mid-november. If they don't that will be a lame release.

    Also they need to come out with their discounts on the leftovers soon. The 18's and 19's that are out there are priced higher than the 2020's were for snow check. They aren't going to clear those many of those until the discounts come out.
    I agree pricing will need to be adjusted on non currents or dealers will be constipated with old inventory. Textron brought on a lot of speculation by not openly discussing their future intentions for the snow division. The Yamaha / AC relationship apparently is another big secret on /off or separation in 2021. Who knows?

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad460 View Post
    I think they were forced into this early 2021 release due to all the fake news on forums and social media about them going out of business ...
    I agree with all that. Just bad press, public relations all on Textron/AC's part. Textron/AC had to do something as the die hard Cat guy's were getting close to throwing in towel, and moving to a different brand. I don't see any of this "new 2021 release being delivered any time sooner than normal model year release periods. Perhaps a limited pre 2021 build? It's just bait to keep you interested. But I take this as a whole good news. AC is not going away, and Textron has very deep pockets as to the rest of the snowmobile Mfr's.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by harvest1121 View Post
    Yamaha said they will show 2025's soon.
    LMFAO! Yeah, right, good luck with all that! They, Yamaha, have spewed so much total BS over the last 7 years, it doesn't even stick, or stink for that matter anymore!

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    What I think is very humorous is, there's actually "people" here that think there's a "significant" difference in resale between brands.
    Other than discontinued models of course, there's always a chance of that. They all depreciate in an obscene fashion, yr. 1,2,3,4.

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    According to all the experts on here, Cat is going out of business, so I don't know how cat is releasing photos of 2021 sleds.
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    According to all the experts on here, Cat is going out of business, so I don't know how cat is releasing photos of 2021 sleds.
    my thoughts exactly..... rumors can kill.....and lets not forget what happens when you assume

  15. #15

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    I purchased a new 2019 ZR 9000 sno pro back in March, they gave me over $4000.00 of retail. Even back in March rumors were flying that 2020 was going to be the last year Arctic Cat would be making sleds. With all the rumors over the last couple of months guys starting talking about switching brands, not good for AC.

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    Idk what happened at Textron regarding AC maybe they simply didn’t understand their snowmobile customer base and the many snowmobile social websites where sleds and OEMs are discussed. Obviously Textron was downsizing terminating many of the old guard internally and dealers as well. When Kennedy publicly states management brought this on themselves by not discussing AC plans with the media puts it all in perspective for me. Textron actually learned something about snowmobile consumers and probably will do much better job at PR. Sooner or later Textron and Yamaha HAS TO make an announcement regarding their relationship I would suspect November is the month for that statement.

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    Being a longtime Yamaha fan...I too am baffled by the lack of information, and LIES about a 100 percent yamaha built machine...instead of being truthful about what the future holds, they have let internet speculation run wild...at least Cat is doing something...Yamaha is sitting their hands, everything is top secret. Its frustrating for sure...and IMO Yamaha waited too long, and customer's have gone on to other brands. I currently work a Ski doo dealer, and will be riding ski doos this winter...and have zero problems with that. I love what yamaha did with the viper GT this year...but the pricing is outrageous...(I know, nobody pays msrp)..basically for the same price you can buy a ski doo 900 turbo renegade....Why on earth would anybody buy a Viper (even with the improvements)?? Like whitedust said...let's see what cat does in the next couple of weeks, it should give us an idea of where yamaha is going....but alot of yami riders are buying ski-doos (seeing it first hand with my own eyes).

    The new Apex...yamaha riders have been waiting for is here...and Skidoo makes it (900 ace turbo)

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    Folks, if Yamaha was ever going to build their own snowmobiles again, it would have happened by now. They, Yamaha made their decision not to build snowmobiles quite a while ago as in years. Textron, building back up AC power sports/snowmobiles business model structurally, will not include custom building sleds for a direct competitor! Creating their own direct competition just makes no good business sense what so ever. That would be as cutting off your own ---- with a dull knife! Then there is this, Textron put a lot of cash into being able to produce any type engines for their power sports business that they would need. 2 or 4 stroke. This is all part of a modular design/produce/build manufacturing platform. Such as Doo's model. Forget the Yamaha deal, it's over! The only thing handled worse than Textron/AC customer relations, is the way Yamaha did their customer base. They blew that years back with too many LIES, and BS as Attak man said. Perhaps Yamaha was waiting for AC to go belly up? If that is the case, they blew that big time also! Be patient with Textron/AC getting back to where they can be in the market. I for one believe it will be well worth waiting for!

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    Agree Attack Man, I have a fleet of Yami's (separation issues, don't sell one when I buy another) and its probably time to look elsewhere. There is a new 900 Turbo in the group and an offer from Whitedust to see his so its time to vet out the Doos. I just bought a UTV from Ken's and took interest in the Pol Switchback while there. So who knows, a brand switch is in order and could even trade valves for ports this time. I just can't order a sled from a company that doesn't know if they want to make them.
    Strange though that Yami is offering the old Venture again.

  20. #20
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    I felt like Yamaha officially announced they were giving up when they released the transporter with the cat 2 stroke. Nothing wrong with the sled but it has nothing yamaha in it other than skis and stickers.

    I was told by a guy in northern ontario last January who operates some cabins for snowmobilers that Yamaha was up there testing new, high-end Yamaha-built sleds for 2021 release. This was before the 2020's came out and he told us to hold off buying anything before 2021. I'm not sure why he'd lie to us but it seems far-fetched

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    I felt like Yamaha officially announced they were giving up when they released the transporter with the cat 2 stroke. Nothing wrong with the sled but it has nothing yamaha in it other than skis and stickers.

    I was told by a guy in northern ontario last January who operates some cabins for snowmobilers that Yamaha was up there testing new, high-end Yamaha-built sleds for 2021 release. This was before the 2020's came out and he told us to hold off buying anything before 2021. I'm not sure why he'd lie to us but it seems far-fetched
    That’s exactly why I don’t think Yamaha has any new sleds on the cook. No leaks , no spy pictures, no internet sightings , no nuttin! That’s so difficult to do in this day and age with cameras everywhere. It would benefit Yamaha to leak a little something but still nothing so it appears Yamaha is done. It would be laughable for Yamaha to stay with the procross while Cat moves on with a new platform. November will define a lot for AC and common sense will prevail if Yamaha says nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitedust View Post
    That’s exactly why I don’t think Yamaha has any new sleds on the cook. No leaks , no spy pictures, no internet sightings , no nuttin! That’s so difficult to do in this day and age with cameras everywhere. It would benefit Yamaha to leak a little something but still nothing so it appears Yamaha is done. It would be laughable for Yamaha to stay with the procross while Cat moves on with a new platform. November will define a lot for AC and common sense will prevail if Yamaha says nothing.
    whitedust, we were out west at a friends way out of the way, back in the far boonies, back when Yamaha was testing the prototype/pre-build Vector/Mountain sled. We were off the "radar" you might say as we were so far into nowhere area. Even back then, within days, there were pics all over. With today's tech, as in drones, no way to keep it secret. No way! Yamaha has lost a lot of their loyal customer base already. This next year will not make it any better. Too many have heard this BS, and seen this show too many times already. And don't forget it is Yamaha's choosing to be where they are. That being very limited. Imo, they fumbled this whole thing very badly!

  23. #23
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    I remember Yamaha testing the Nytro back in 2010....they were way up in Thompsen Manitoba, on a lake...pictures popped up on the internet of the arctic cat factory truck parked next to the yamaha truck, and everybody laughed about it...4 years later...the viper arrived...but there is literally nothing at there about yamaha...not even recent patents ...the recent moves of the snowmobile division here in north america, gave people some hope that something was going on...but so far..nada....Yamaha would be wise to follow cats move, and do an early season release, or at least tease a bit if new stuff is coming...because right now they are deep in the water, and people who were extremely loyal to yamaha, who hung in as long as they could are now jumping ship, and going to other brands.

  24. #24
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    FWIW....AS FAR AS YAMAHA AND TEXTRON AGEEMENTS GO......pretty sure this cat is sporting the 3 holer Yamaha

  25. #25
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    I couldn't agree more. I am a current Cat rider for last 10 years because I felt they had the best product and their race program was on point. With the last couple years, lack of changes, dealer support, race program investment I have seriously looked at going back to Polaris. They definitely know their customer base and IMO are the leading brand right know in the mountain and trail sleds. The 21' Cats with new decals for third year in a row isn't cutting it .

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    I felt like Yamaha officially announced they were giving up when they released the transporter with the cat 2 stroke. Nothing wrong with the sled but it has nothing yamaha in it other than skis and stickers.

    I was told by a guy in northern ontario last January who operates some cabins for snowmobilers that Yamaha was up there testing new, high-end Yamaha-built sleds for 2021 release. This was before the 2020's came out and he told us to hold off buying anything before 2021. I'm not sure why he'd lie to us but it seems far-fetched
    You were being lied too...

  27. #27
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    People change brands every year. Just because someone switches, doesn't mean they won't switch back.
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    People change brands every year. Just because someone switches, doesn't mean they won't switch back.

    Yep Skylar. Yamaha comes out with something new for 2021, there will be a lot of used 900 Ace Turbos for sale in the fall of 2021.

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    After looking at the picture on their website, I think they are releasing an improved Alpha. The headlight, seat and cowling is a little different or maybe refined. No major changes, just small enhancements like they have been doing the last few years.

    Capture.PNG

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    Yep Skylar. Yamaha comes out with something new for 2021, there will be a lot of used 900 Ace Turbos for sale in the fall of 2021.
    I wouldn't recommend holding your breath on that one!

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    Yep Skylar. Yamaha comes out with something new for 2021, there will be a lot of used 900 Ace Turbos for sale in the fall of 2021.
    i doubt it

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fujifilm View Post
    I get it that we have brand loyal fellas on here.
    You know what makes me brand loyal, value.
    I don't care who is making what, if I get buried on resale I am not going back to buy another the year after.

    ICT is correct, A/C is doing no favors to their fans by trying to change the game.
    Heck, T/A Motorsports still has new 2013 Cats in stock. Can you imagine seeing a new 2013 next to a 2021 on the showroom? Cat should have managed those old sleds..idiots.

    Bear
    lol I have never seen a used sled not loose a big pile of cash . especaly if the track is more than 144 then you are just giving them away in 3 yrs

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    Yep Skylar. Yamaha comes out with something new for 2021, there will be a lot of used 900 Ace Turbos for sale in the fall of 2021.
    Highly doubtful the 900t has been very reliable. What is possible if a pure Yamaha sled appears is lots of Yamacats being traded in plus Apex and Vectors. Not a likely scenario to see a pure Yamaha sled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    Yep Skylar. Yamaha comes out with something new for 2021, there will be a lot of used 900 Ace Turbos for sale in the fall of 2021.
    They would have to come with some of the yamaha features that aren't on the cats...EPS, and their version of the wireless throttle (there is zero hesitation with yamaha's wireless throttle, it works great)...they definately would have to be in a new chassis, with their own suspensions, and a new high tech gauge package....otherwise...I highly doubt anybody would dump the sleds they currently own. Again..I just don't see them doing that...and even if they did, they are so far behind everybody else, they would need an earth shattering, HUGE release that set the industry on it's ear....their lack of truthful communication with their loyal riders is disturbing...and tells me yamaha japan is in complete charge of what direction their snowmobile division is going...and frankly...they have been out of touch with what north american snowmobilers want for a very long time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ezra View Post
    lol I have never seen a used sled not loose a big pile of cash . especaly if the track is more than 144 then you are just giving them away in 3 yrs
    Bear say ancient Chinese secret.

    Bear

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    Quote Originally Posted by ezra View Post
    lol I have never seen a used sled not loose a big pile of cash . especaly if the track is more than 144 then you are just giving them away in 3 yrs
    HEY, ITS EZRA!
    where you been man?
    I was wondering what happened to ya

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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RB9g...ature=youtu.be

    teaser video for the november release.

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    Time will tell fella's. Believe it or not with the lack of production I have seen used Yamaha resale value climb. Even as limited as the Yamaha lineup is, it's selling very well for us. We certainly need new Yamaha product there's no denying that. Yamaha has made many cutbacks, many of which I do not like. They have the technology but it does get old when they're not using it to it's full potential. I truly believe they have some of their own Yamaha built sleds in testing. Whether or not they pull the trigger is a whole different story. I've seen some cool stuff they have built that never made it to market. Hope is a dangerous but I still have some left

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    Kip....I hope you are right...but good thing you sell polaris......Maybe you should sell ski-doo too...(you'd look good in yellow)...lol

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    Yamaha started having a marketing guy post videos on facebook from snow shows. While they have beat around the bush, they keep saying they will answer questions if you post below. Of course its repetitive things from above.

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    Mark does a killer job at Timberline buddy!!! Yellow is certainly a nice color

  42. #42
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    Long time Yamaha rider here. Came across a 17 ZR 9000 similar to sidewinder picked it up for $9500. Keeping the apex for buddies to ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fujifilm View Post
    Bear say ancient Chinese secret.

    Bear
    Cat is wacked.

    Picked up my spring order 2020 X Package 850 Gade with 3 year warranty and free financing til 3/31/20 yesterday and had to laugh at Cat.
    T/A Motorsports posted a ton of Cats on Green Bay Craigslist today and the prices are laughable for leftovers. Total proof of what my Doo dealer said yesterday, "Cat dealers are getting no support in rebates to move this old stuff". Anyone who buys a Cat is gonna get hurt financially and the dealers..sad; sounds like lawsuits are in order.
    The fact is my 2020 sled was less expensive than a 2019 ZR 8000 137 leftover; POOR BASTARDS.



    Bear

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    A mid sized group of sleds eh? Price is a little steep, but hopefully they make a crap load of them to excite young riders. Everyone has been asking for a single cylinder 2 stroke, YOU GOT IT!!

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    $8k for a single cylinder mid sized sled. What they **** are they smoking in TRF???? I just bought my daughter a full size left over 2018 Indy 550 for $5,300. The mid-sized Polaris Evo's go for $5,500. $8k is not the right price point for this market. Yet another disaster for Cat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SledTL View Post
    A mid sized group of sleds eh? Price is a little steep, but hopefully they make a crap load of them to excite young riders. Everyone has been asking for a single cylinder 2 stroke, YOU GOT IT!!
    Yes and remember over the years how the HP to displacement has changed, no rider reports yet but may be in for surprise, this single cylinder with todays technologies may perform like yesteryears 440 or 500's, may be in for a shock. I seem to remember a lot of talk of how Cat was done, lets hope they are here to stay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle River Mike View Post
    $8k for a single cylinder mid sized sled. What they **** are they smoking in TRF???? I just bought my daughter a full size left over 2018 Indy 550 for $5,300. The mid-sized Polaris Evo's go for $5,500. $8k is not the right price point for this market. Yet another disaster for Cat.
    amen

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fujifilm View Post
    Cat is wacked.

    Picked up my spring order 2020 X Package 850 Gade with 3 year warranty and free financing til 3/31/20 yesterday and had to laugh at Cat.
    T/A Motorsports posted a ton of Cats on Green Bay Craigslist today and the prices are laughable for leftovers. Total proof of what my Doo dealer said yesterday, "Cat dealers are getting no support in rebates to move this old stuff". Anyone who buys a Cat is gonna get hurt financially and the dealers..sad; sounds like lawsuits are in order.
    The fact is my 2020 sled was less expensive than a 2019 ZR 8000 137 leftover; POOR BASTARDS.



    Bear
    Glad you got the warranty. You will likely need it....

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    65 hp for a single liquid-cooled laid back 400cc 2-stroke. The same hp as my '86 twin 400. Sounds about right. I would put it at a 70 mph sled. Fast enough for the teenager and petite women. Someone has to explain to me how this is a disaster for Cat? New body style. Nice colors. Pepe engine. Not a downsized old chassis. Not limited to 50 mph with out spending an additional $1,500 +/-, putting the sled over 6 G's. I do not see the logic of some people other then blinded by brand loyalty. I wish this was out when I got the '07 Phazer for my teenagers to ride. That was a disaster. I had to don't so much work and throw so many after market parts to make that thing ride and handle. (But, in all fairness, once it was setup it handled nice.) Also, tell how the what was it called again by Ski-doo? Oh yes, wasn't it the Freestyle? That was a real winner, wasn't it?

    Hay Polaris, how are those laid back motors of yours coming? Have you figured out how to make one that actually runs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    Someone has to explain to me how this is a disaster for Cat?

    I wish this was out when I got the '07 Phazer for my teenagers to ride. That was a disaster.

    Also, tell how the what was it called again by Ski-doo? Oh yes, wasn't it the Freestyle? That was a real winner, wasn't it?
    Kinda answered you're own question. There isn't a sustainable high end market for beginner, or mid sized sleds. There is an unlimited supply of older, smaller sleds, that can be had for under $1000 that are more than adequate for a beginner. I can buy each of my grandchildren 2 of those for the price of the new Cat. lol

    And I put lots of miles on a Phazer, it wasn't a complete disaster, by any means. lol

  51. #51

  52. #52
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    I like them, but the price is too high. Polaris evo seems like a better option

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    Quote Originally Posted by dothedoo View Post
    Kinda answered you're own question. There isn't a sustainable high end market for beginner, or mid sized sleds. There is an unlimited supply of older, smaller sleds, that can be had for under $1000 that are more than adequate for a beginner. I can buy each of my grandchildren 2 of those for the price of the new Cat. lol

    And I put lots of miles on a Phazer, it wasn't a complete disaster, by any means. lol
    No, not really. This is not a starter sled. If you actually paid attention to what you read and looked at, it is a mid-size sled. It is not a beginner sled. The ZR 200 is the beginners sled. This sled will be close or at best equal to the Phazer in performance without the Phazer's weight or maintenance headaches. (I remember those days of having to take the Phazer half apart to change the oil filter.) Probably closer to the class of the Jag's, Yamaha SS, or Polaris Cutlass SS of old. (Think back to the 70's or 80's.) So, anyone is crazy to think of this as a starter sled. It is not. You have a new engine that is liquid-cooled with power valve. Not some whiney 300 or 550 fan. Plus you have a capable for its size mountain sled and work sled. This has the same tech as the bigger sleds. However, you would be crazy to expect this to climb a chute or operate really well in 12' of powder. You can tell Cat wasn't going for that based on the description of it.

    This is not a beginners sled. This is a new market, once again by Cat. Think of it like the Sea-doo Spark. Now, who's behind the eight ball? It is not Cat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here is a little something for all the people claiming Cat was out of the industry.

    Eating crow.jpg

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    They sell a lot of those 200's at $4K, but this seems a stretch at closer to $8K. Cool sled at 400 lbs but price seems high to me. We'll see what happens. Good news is it's a new product - new chassis and engine. Bad news is no new full-size chassis for 2021. Not sure why they put these out so early...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    They sell a lot of those 200's at $4K, but this seems a stretch at closer to $8K. Cool sled at 400 lbs but price seems high to me. We'll see what happens. Good news is it's a new product - new chassis and engine. Bad news is no new full-size chassis for 2021. Not sure why they put these out so early...
    Yes, they do sell a lot of the ZR 200s. I have had dealers around me say they need a decent sled for around 8K like the Sea-doo has with the Spark and Cat is delivering. The dealers I have talked with think 8K is the sweet spot to attract new blood or for a decent second sled. As for the thinking that Cat has not done anything for the bigger sleds. Consider the following. We got an updated chassis in 2018. 2018 also brought us the 800 CTEC-2 and self-adjusting Team secondary. In 2019 they brought out the Alpha mono-rail suspension and iACT. Last year we got the Cross-Action suspension on the Riot plus the ARS II on the non-mountain sleds. So, while it is not a big change at once, these are not the same sleds as my '16 HC which was based off of the original 12 chassis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    Yes, they do sell a lot of the ZR 200s. I have had dealers around me say they need a decent sled for around 8K like the Sea-doo has with the Spark and Cat is delivering. The dealers I have talked with think 8K is the sweet spot to attract new blood or for a decent second sled. As for the thinking that Cat has not done anything for the bigger sleds. Consider the following. We got an updated chassis in 2018. 2018 also brought us the 800 CTEC-2 and self-adjusting Team secondary. In 2019 they brought out the Alpha mono-rail suspension and iACT. Last year we got the Cross-Action suspension on the Riot plus the ARS II on the non-mountain sleds. So, while it is not a big change at once, these are not the same sleds as my '16 HC which was based off of the original 12 chassis.
    I hear you - I bought an 18 ZR 600 last year, really happy with it. Rode the other brands too but liked the feel of the procross. Other than wanting a slightly higher seat and a better headlight I'm happy with it. Of course the leftovers were selling last year for about what they are asking for these new 400's. Hope it's a big success.

    That's a good point about the spark. That's all we see at the lake now. I'd like to try one out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    No, not really. This is not a starter sled. If you actually paid attention to what you read and looked at, it is a mid-size sled. It is not a beginner sled. The ZR 200 is the beginners sled.
    You may be a little confused on the terminology. The ZR 200 is a children's sled, not a beginner's sled. My 6 year old granddaughter, who has been on a 120 for 3 years, would step up to the ZR 200.

    A 12 year old, hitting the trails for the first time, or any other "first time rider" would be the target market for the new Cat. My opinion, is that market is not really an $8K price point market.

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    I'm seeing FX Phazer like Powerband in a lighter package.
    Sled might be a hoot to have down here in SE WI ....or on any other twisty WI trails.
    When they drop below $7,000 I might take a look.
    Hopefully Textcat over builds in an effort to get their huge startup investment $$$ back.

    If this is truly a modern starter sled I certainly would hope Textcat designed in a 2 or 3 setting power mode option.
    Last edited by snobuilder; 11-20-2019 at 09:41 AM.

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    I agree the Zr blast is definitely a 8k beginner sled. The Zr 200 is a backyard/hay field child’s ride. The blast is over priced. I have a hard time believing people will pay that amount when you can get a 2s 600 from poo or doo for relatively the same price. I bought a 600 Indy last year for $8175 brand new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor View Post
    Glad you got the warranty. You will likely need it....
    LOL, very doubtful? fuji doesn't keep his sleds long enough to use any warranty!

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    An employee of mine skipped the 120s and 200s and just went to an EVO for his 7 year old last year. Not even an overly big kid and he handled it just fine for 600 miles. He will continue to grow in to it this season. They are planning some 60 mile groomed ditch rides this season. You can't do that on a 120 or 200. His wife can also ride the EVO in a pinch. The other mfgrs are missing out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    An employee of mine skipped the 120s and 200s and just went to an EVO for his 7 year old last year. Not even an overly big kid and he handled it just fine for 600 miles. He will continue to grow in to it this season. They are planning some 60 mile groomed ditch rides this season. You can't do that on a 120 or 200. His wife can also ride the EVO in a pinch. The other mfgrs are missing out.
    Agree with all of that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle River Mike View Post
    $8k for a single cylinder mid sized sled. What they **** are they smoking in TRF???? I just bought my daughter a full size left over 2018 Indy 550 for $5,300. The mid-sized Polaris Evo's go for $5,500. $8k is not the right price point for this market. Yet another disaster for Cat.
    The Polaris EVO is a cheap piece of crap worth $3000...Ski Doo is charging $8500 for 20+ year old technology in the 600 Sport. I do think $7600-$8000 is high, but you’re getting a decent cool looking sled ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dothedoo View Post
    You may be a little confused on the terminology. ...
    Okay, so let's analyze your assumption. Where is it said that this is a beginner's sled on Cat's website. They are not advertising this as a tweener sled like Polaris did with the Evo. So, if you say this is a beginner's sled then prove it and show me where Cat says it is a beginners. Otherwise it is your unsubstantiated opinion.

    Another point. I explained this sled to my wife and her response was "Oh, so a sled I can handle and ride." She is 5'-2" and weights far less than the average man so anything that is of what we call normal size by today's standards, which I will explain later, is to big for her. She has to sit on the gas tank to reach the handle bars and her feet barely touch the running boards when she sits on them. She has been riding a sled since the early '80's, so go ahead and try telling me is she a beginner rider? (I think not! Just a small rider.)

    I would consider today's normal size sled to be a full-size ZR, Indy, MXz, or Vector. If you place one of today's sleds next to a large sled back in the '80's, which I have done with an '81 trail Cat or '86 Indy 400, the current sled is almost twice the size of the large sleds from the '80's. They have really grown over the decades.

    Price is too high? Let's look at that. So the MSRP of a '86 Polaris Indy 400 was $3,500. At that time it was second in Polaris' line up to the top of the line Indy 600 with a MSRP of $3,750. I would say the Blast is comparable to the '86 400 in hp speed and features and that is why I am making the comparison. Like the 400, it has updated technology the for time period. (The Evo and MXz Sport doesn't but we will get to that later.) The Blast is half the price of Cat's top of the line Thundercat. So, we would have to get an '86 Polaris Star to get a similar price point comparison. So you are getting a sled that does over 70 mph for the same price point for a sled that did 45 mph may 50 mph at best? (By the way, all the MSRP is coming from NADA's website.) And you are saying that a sled that cost $2,200 less than the Blast with a top speed of 50 mph and advertised as a tweener sled is a better value? (I used the Evo with the electric start because the Blast has electric start on it.) But you can buy the upgrade kit for the Evo for another $1,500. Now the price difference is just $700. Wow! What savings!

    Let us take it a step further. For $2,200 to $700 less you get the following:

    - An old body style that has been out for almost a decade compared to a new body style.

    - A sled advertised as a true tweener / newbie sled compared a sled that is advertised as a mid-size sled for any riding ability.

    - A sled limited to 50 mph unless you lay down another 15 Benjamin's and brings it within $700 to a sled that exceeds that out of the box.

    - A sled with a dated front suspension compared to a current front suspension only 4 years old.

    - A mountain sled with a dated rear suspension compared to a sled with the latest innovation (the Alpha mono-rail.)

    I can continue but by now you should get the point.

    Going further yet. So you are comparing the price of sleds with decades old engine smokey technology (The Evo's 550 and MXz Sports 600) to a sled with new engine tech? Maybe the pricing should be the other way around of you think about it. Maybe Polaris and Ski-doo is charging too much for engine tech that has been paid for time and time again.

    I am not brand loyal and I think all the sleds out there are good, but blind-brand loyalty is really annoying and ignorant and that is what I am pointing out with most of my posts. If you love your sled, great, good for you. But just remember when you go out and polish your Polaris or Ski-doo, wax it, sit on it, caress it, fawn over it, that super great slide rail-suspension and awesome front a-arm suspension on it was first brought to market by ARCTIC CAT!!! (How 'bout them apples?)
    Last edited by xsledder; 11-20-2019 at 10:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    I am not brand loyal and I think all the sleds out there are good, but blind-brand loyalty is really annoying and ignorant and that is what I am pointing out with most of my posts. If you love your sled, great, good for you. But just remember when you go out and polish your Polaris or Ski-doo, wax it, sit on it, caress it, fawn over it, that super great slide rail-suspension and awesome front a-arm suspension on it was first brought to market by ARCTIC CAT!!! (How 'bout them apples?)
    You're full of it on several points. Me, or anyone, questioning the success of a beginner/mid-size sled at a higher price point is not the result of brand loyalty, or bashing. It's just common sense. I hope AC sells a million of them....I hope Cat, Poo, and Yam all sell millions of sleds. The more they sell, the more pressure on my brand of choice to do better. I win.

    To say this new AC isn't a beginner sled, is just nonsense. Don't get so butt hurt about the term beginner....use "entry level" if that makes you feel better. Good grief...when you described a child's toy, ZR200, as a beginner's sled, I about fell off my chair. lol

    Also....the gymnastics you go through to justify the price point is not logical. Again, we're talking about targeting first time/inexperienced/youthful riders here. Do most of them really care if they're riding brand new technology? Good grief. Sure....young adults with money would care about the "sizzle" of new tech....no doubt. Dad's with money, who want to see junior hitting the trails looking like Tucker Hibbert, would also find it appealing. But, those aren't the majority of the target market. The overwhelming majority of riders in this market wouldn't know if they are riding a 2 stroke, 4 stroke, single/two/three cylinder sled. lol

    So, the only ignorant brand loyalty you're pointing out is your own. lol
    Last edited by mspease; 11-21-2019 at 10:13 AM.

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    Is it the price or priorities? Eight Thousand dollars for a new sled for the family? But, but.... That would mean I might not get my new sled every year.... Let them ride beaters instead.
    Growing up, our dad bought us three new late '70s AC 340 F/A Jags. We LOVED those little sleds! Mom tried one, and traded her "full size" sled for a new Jag of her own. Dad rode his early '70s Panther for another few years until he could finally afford a newer sled....
    Today we have a fleet of small snowmobiles for our grand kids. A Kitty Cat, a newer ZR 120, two new ZR 200s, and four forty plus year old 250 AC Lynx's. The kids love the size of the Lynx, but I need to scan the internet for parts to keep them running. A few ZR 400 Blasts could replace a few of the Lynx. My wife and I are riding ten year old AC Fs. Priorities I guess....

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    Polaris Evo was designed to grow with the rider.
    Part of the Evo "kit" includes a wider front end that takes the stance from 39" to full size and also increases susp. travel.
    The ZR Blast ski stance is narrower than the Evo.
    What does Cat offer for the Blast ....if they do?.... and WHAT will it cost?

    Oh, and how do we know the Blast won't be "smokey"....LMAO.
    Last edited by snobuilder; 11-21-2019 at 10:07 AM.

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    On the evo the throttle flipper limits the speed. As Snobuilder stated the rest of the kit is ride and suspension related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by garageguy View Post
    On the evo the throttle flipper limits the speed. As Snobuilder stated the rest of the kit is ride and suspension related.
    I would assume the Blast will have a throttle limiter as well to be considered a true tweener/starter sled

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    Mid size snowmobile may not be for everyone, but for the people looking for a great option, I am happy they are building them. The sport overall has been declining for years, and with new options like the Blast, and Evo, maybe some of the younger people will enjoy them, or people with smaller bodies. Full size snowmobiles don't fit all adults, and most younger people, so its actually a safer ride for them as well. Like I said, they are not for everyone, but a great option for the ones looking for that size snowmobile. I usually don't buy items based on 100% cost, but more for what the item will do for me. I usually buy a new SXS every couple years, and many people think that's a waste of money. Its a waste of money only if you don't use it. For me, I would rather spend a few bucks more, and get what you want, and most important is be happy with what you buy. If you buy a new Evo, and don't like it, but the Blast has more of what you need, how much did you really save? I think making a mountain version, and the utility one, is pretty aggressive for a company short on cash, but if it works good for them. You cant just build the one that is sold the most, 600 class? you have to come out with something new, and I think they have done a very good job of that with the Alpha and now the Blast. Just my thoughts.

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    I do not like all the front suspension hanging out in the wind on the Blast. There is also no front bumper to lift on and protect the hood a little bit. It is a beginner sled. It is going to get banged up. I know my earliest sleds all sustained front end damage of some sort. The front of the EVO is a little more robust. When it comes down to it the most important features on a beginner sled are as follows : Electric start. Heated grips and thumb warmer. Reverse. A decent sized gas tank so Dad doesn't have to go out and fill it up every hour. Junior is not going to care that much about suspension travel or lay down engines or any of that tech. Junior probably doesn't care what color it is either. Just so it goes.

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    Only time will tell who is right or who is wrong, and if the new Cat Blast will be a success. I am 50/50 on it, but the price is a big concern to me. I see a fair amount of 19 EVO's still available, so not sure about those either, and if there even is a "mid sized" market. Should be, but not sure there is one. As for the 200's, do not see where they fit in really, other then for riding around an open field. A 120 to an EVO or Blast is the logical move.

    I have a 19 EVO with electric start and it is a really good, stable, mid sized sled. Yeah 50mph max is an issue, but not for a young teen or small rider who will ride a sled like this. The extended throttle lever and the ease of "pulling" it is one of the strongest attributes, and the mid sized frame works well. Plus, you can ride it on trails and do just fine.

    With my older kids I had 550's, 440's, and 380 fans, and the throttle effort was what they all disliked. EVO takes care of this, as do larger non carbed sleds.

    I have no plans on adding the EVO kit, plan on having my son use the sled for 2 years and i will sell it as is. A 600 EFI is the logical next step.

    I am on my second 850 Doo, and my 25 year old son just bought a new 850 Doo. Absolutely love the motor and the sleds, but not sure my 25 year old needs one, even though he is a really good rider, and i am not sure so many others need 850's or bigger, given some of the riding skills, or lack of, i have witnessed.

    Look me up at the end of the riding year, and i will have a nice ES EVO available.

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    I doubt it cost any more to build the Blast over the Evo.
    Diff. Is that Cat is trying to recoup development cost which puts them at a huge disadvantage in the msrp vs Evo.

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    I hope it's successful as we need more young people in the sport. That being said...I have an 11 year old who just started riding last winter on an '87 340 Indy. Absolutely loves it. If next year when shes 12 wants a bigger sled, I'll put her on my '98 indy 500. That sled has the same power as the new AC but old a** suspension which is way past it's prime. But I'm not buying an 8k or even 5k sled for her to put 300 miles a year on. That's crazy for me to do. All kids want the newest and latest but with the lack of snow, until last year, I can't afford it. I may be like a lot of my friends and rent the one year we go up North. Yeah it's a lot but not as much as owning one.

    In my opinion what is driving people out of this sport is cost. You'll always have die hards who buy new 850's every year. And you'll have people like me milking along there old iron just to ride it "one more year." But for me I would need 3 sleds and in a couple of years that goes to 5. That means big trailer, big truck or place up North to store them at. If I can buy a boat and go out for 7+ months every year, where's my payback on new sleds?

    That's my $0.01...

  75. #75
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    There are plenty of parents who can afford to buy one for their kids, no doubt about it.

    Payback on a sled? There is no payback on a sled or any other powersports toy. They are nothing but a huge waste of money. I have a sled and sxs, because we are only on this planet once, and I'm going to enjoy myself while I'm here.
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dothedoo View Post
    You're full of it on several points. Me, or anyone, questioning the success of a beginner/mid-size sled at a higher price point is not the result of brand loyalty, or bashing. It's just common sense. I hope AC sells a million of them....I hope Cat, Poo, and Yam all sell millions of sleds. The more they sell, the more pressure on my brand of choice to do better. I win.

    To say this new AC isn't a beginner sled, is just nonsense. Don't get so butt hurt about the term beginner....use "entry level" if that makes you feel better. Good grief...when you described a child's toy, ZR200, as a beginner's sled, I about fell off my chair. lol

    Also....the gymnastics you go through to justify the price point is not logical. Again, we're talking about targeting first time/inexperienced/youthful riders here. Do most of them really care if they're riding brand new technology? Good grief. Sure....young adults with money would care about the "sizzle" of new tech....no doubt. Dad's with money, who want to see junior hitting the trails looking like Tucker Hibbert, would also find it appealing. But, those aren't the majority of the target market. The overwhelming majority of riders in this market wouldn't know if they are riding a 2 stroke, 4 stroke, single/two/three cylinder sled. lol

    So, the only ignorant brand loyalty you're pointing out is your own. lol
    so true !!!!!!

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    When I stepped my kids up I found a beautiful 1999 Z370 with only 800 miles on it. The kids fought over it. When my son turned 14 he claimed that he should have my spare sled a 1998 ZL 600. That was fine. He's 17 and still loves it. The sleds don't have to be new, and kids young bodies don't need perfect suspension. They just need a reliable, well maintained sled. The closest I've come to paying $8,000 for one of my kid's sleds was $6,000 for a 2012 Arctic Cat 800 XF that had 600 miles on it and was already rewrapped in her favorite color. PINK!!!! Perfect student, busts her butt in the barn by choice, and would never abuse it. But I never bought any of them a new sled. There are so many good used sleds out there just waiting to make your child happy! Think a winter version of Toy Story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    There are plenty of parents who can afford to buy one for their kids, no doubt about it.

    Payback on a sled? There is no payback on a sled or any other powersports toy. They are nothing but a huge waste of money. I have a sled and sxs, because we are only on this planet once, and I'm going to enjoy myself while I'm here.
    There are plenty of parents who will buy their kids one for literally no other reason than it is expensive (for what it is) and everyone knows it. People live out their rat race through their kids too. The phenomenon lives strong within the sledding community.

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    Skylar - I understand what you're saying but on this board this is a lot of discussion around the average age getting older, how do we get new kids involved in the sport etc. The release of an 8k beginner, smaller whatever you want to call it sled, puts it out of reach for the average Joe. You have decided to live your life and doing what you want to do because you're only on this planet once. I, and this is just me, can't justify a sled payment (or 2/3). I don't have a car payment and I can't see having a payment on a toy, for me I can't. This is why I believe the sport won't make it.

    Everyone has to have a new sled or you aren't supporting the sport. If you don't have Klim gear, a new helmet and new heated goggles every year your not cool enough to go riding. Oh wow you have an old open two place trailer you pull with your minivan, please do not park next to my 80k truck and 20k trailer. These threads are insane to read. I'm speaking from a very generic middle class position and if I didn't snowmobile (and I'm the only one in my family that does), I could take the entire family to Florida for a week every winter. It's all about choices.

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    You make a great point about not everyone buying new, and I agree 100%, not everyone can do that, or should. This thread has many saying this machine is not for them because of the expense, guess what, in 5 years the machine will be 5 years old and significantly less money. Why is it that so many people are worried about right now, do you think about what the future will bring in years ahead? How many here have bought a brand new Kitty Cat, compared to how many have bought a used one? My guess would be 10-1 used over new. And that may even be low. I think its a great machine for the right person and right situation. It has a lot of great features that will fit many types of riding, and many different riding skills. Without new ideas, and coming out with new machines, we would all be riding some really horrible non reliable snowmobiles. Keep an open mind, and don't spend more that what is right for your needs, and everyone will enjoy riding snowmobiles. I think most people when buying snowmobile for their kids, get a used one to start, not too many that honestly can afford brand new, but for the folks that can afford it, it looks like a great option. I do think the used market for these units in a couple years will be very strong. 79 posts in a couple days, yes people have interest in this new option. Just my .02

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    What does it cost to build a 4000 Blast, market it, sell it, pay their workers a LIVING wage, AND keep the lights on at the factory? Tack on the legal fees for when Little Johnny runs full "Blast" into a tree and the parents sue. "But, but, we thought it was a toy. we dint know Lil John/John could get hurt?!"
    A Blast is half the cost of a premium adult sled. My plan is to get two for the grand kids. One this season, one next season. As for trying to impress the neighbors with the latest bling, their parents will only allow our G-kids to ride on the 600 acres of private property we own and have access to, and never, ever, on the public trails where the 116 mph trail racerettes ride. And I'll respect that. So the only ones that will burn their eyes on them getting ridden will be the deer or maybe the casual coyote.
    Besides, if you cant justify the price of a Blast, they make cheaper ones in China. Are these more in the price range that people want to spend on their kids? Yay! Maybe the big box discount stores can decide for us all what a snowmo should cost and start sell them in their stores like everything else they sell cheap.
    https://www.powerdirtbikes.com/cheap-snowmobiles

  82. #82
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Hallock MN. 20 miles south of Canada - 10 miles east of ND.
    Posts
    2,116

    Default

    If they are getting $2500 for a TauTau Snowleopard then the asking prices for both a Blast and an EVO seem much more reasonable. Although it would be cool to be the first one on my block to have a Snowleopard.

  83. #83
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Fort Wayne, IN / Trout Lake. MI
    Posts
    580

    Default

    I think cat has done good by there word. They realized no everyone can afford a 12 to 16k sled 8. Grand is half and in the past cat has done well with smaller sleds look at the past the old 340s 440s were not power houses but they were ample for a begginner and even experienced adults. Its a market that could push cat ahead of the game. All my kids ride either with me or there own sled. And the blast is perfect for my 11 yr old daughter to move up to. And most likely ride for some time into the future. However for some average joe who tries ridding out for the first time with a group of buddies this year and falls in love 8k for a brand new machine is better than a 2003 rev 800 that will cost him 3500 and need a top end in 1000 miles. Ive bought brand new sleds and my wife hated me for the amount they cost. So me personally I stick with used sleds that i can build to be exactly what i want. But this def fills a void. One that has needed filled for many years. Plus theres no way in heck id buy a tautau for my daughter lol.

    MOD

  84. #84
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Out there
    Posts
    4,670

    Default

    All we need is snow.
    Last edited by snobuilder; 11-23-2019 at 06:29 AM.

  85. #85
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    50

    Default

    It is hard for me to drop 8k on a sled I can’t even sit on much less ride. Sounds like a fun sled for this old guy, but put a model at my dealership so I can at least sit on one!

  86. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Elgin, IL.
    Posts
    624

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dothedoo View Post
    So, the only ignorant brand loyalty you're pointing out is your own. lol
    First, my statement was a general statement not directly pointed at you, so I must have struck a nerve or found some truth. Secondly, your statement above is utterly false. Not that it is any of your business, I have owned 5 Polaris, 1 Ski-doo, 3 Yamaha, 6 Arctic Cats and 1 Kawasaki. So, please explain how I am brand loyal!? Third, what is your handle again?

    Also, I didn't go through any gymnastics in my logic. Just pointing out that your assumption that this is a beginner's sled is unfounded and false, based on a comparable snowmobile in every aspect that was not considered a mid-size sled back in the 80's. You are making the assumption that because the sled is smaller than the currently accepted norm for a full-size sled, that it is a beginner's sled. False. Is a Mustang a beginner's car because it is smaller than the accepted norm for a full-size car? Again, prove your point.

    Let us apply your logic towards every mid-size sled in the snowmobile industry to the car industry. All mid-size cars are beginner cars because they are smaller and less powerful. Do you see the problem with your logic?
    Last edited by xsledder; 11-23-2019 at 07:16 PM.

  87. #87

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    You statement above is utterly false. I have owned 5 Polaris, 1 Ski-doo, 3 Yamaha, 6 Arctic Cats and 1 Kawasaki. So, please explain how I am brand loyal!? (Besides, what is your handle again?)

    Also, I didn't go through any gymnastics in my logic. Just pointing out that your assumption that this is a beginner's sled is unfounded and false, based on a comparable snowmobile in every aspect that was not considered a mid-size sled back in the 80's. You are making the assumption that because the sled is smaller than the currently accepted norm for a full-size sled, that it is a beginner's sled. False. Is a Mustang a beginner's car because it is smaller than the accepted norm for a full-size car? Again, prove your point.

    Let us apply your logic towards the snowmobile industry to the car industry. All mid-size cars are beginner cars because they are smaller and less powerful. Do you see the problem with your logic?
    You bashed Ski Doo, Yam, and Polaris in one of your earlier posts, and you are getting extremely sensitive in defending the new Cat, when all other folks are saying is that the price is too high for a beginner sled market. Somehow, you are taking others with a more logical, but different opinion than you, as a personal attack. That's brand loyalty at its best. That, or you're an only child. lol

    I'm not going to address your Mustang, or car, reference as I hope you realize how idiotic that comparison is?

  88. #88
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Elgin, IL.
    Posts
    624

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dothedoo View Post
    You bashed Ski Doo, Yam, and Polaris in one of your earlier posts, and you are getting extremely sensitive in defending the new Cat, when all other folks are saying is that the price is too high for a beginner sled market. Somehow, you are taking others with a more logical, but different opinion than you, as a personal attack. That's brand loyalty at its best. That, or you're an only child. lol

    I'm not going to address your Mustang, or car, reference as I hope you realize how idiotic that comparison is?

    Let me see, so far you have accused me of improper terminology and insinuated I am ignorant and an idiot. Most of my replies have been to your posts. At this point I am going to follow the words of Mark Twain, "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." So this will be my last post to you on this thread.

  89. #89
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    River Falls, WI
    Posts
    498

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    The woman 5'1" 104 sat on the Evo. I could see right away that she will be able to throw that sled around like no other. Came to the conclusion that I want the market to follow suit and build a midsize mountain sled. Currently, she rides Axys 800 155. I don't care about the price.

  90. #90
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Spooner, WI
    Posts
    4,470

    Default

    Polaris does offer the Evo in an RMK version. See link below.

    https://snowmobiles.polaris.com/en-u...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

  91. #91
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    River Falls, WI
    Posts
    498

    Default

    Now that you mention it. Yes, I did know they had 144. It was a random day of shopping at FXR Outlet Store for Men's XS gear. Uggh, the youngest is in between Youth XL and Men's. Then we stopped at Tousley to look at TTR 125's and there she was sitting on the Evo.

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