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  1. #1
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    Default Duluth area snowplow drivers on strike

    Just saw that on my morning info-feed. Whatever county Duluth is in the union voted to reject latest offer. So if the big storm comes this weekend it might get interesting.

  2. #2
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    There has to be at least 20K snowblowers owned by the people in the town. Get out there and do your part until this is settled. Clear off a hundred foot or so in front of your place.

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    Its St. Louis County, largest in the state by size, and covers a HUGE area all the way to the Canadian border. Was actually talking to a driver two weeks ago south of Tower, he wasn't exactly in favor of having to take time off for this, and he knows people are going to start to cry quickly when they can't get around as they did (Even though they are sending out managers and other licensed people to drive the plows).

    We saw the effects of it first hand when we were there, by the drivers refusing to plow out park and rides along Hwy 53 north of Virginia. This was their first visible push to get a contract agreement. Obviously didn't work.

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    Hmmm.

    Pretty interesting timing, with what might be the biggest storm of the season so far headed their way.

  5. #5
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    Im amazed that they would (meaning the county) would have ever set up a contact that would affect snowplow drivers to expire in the winter months gives all the power to the union and takes it away from the county. Good for the union not good for the tax payers.

  6. #6
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    If the forecast are right they will be missing out on some overtime I would imagine. Hopefully they can work something out and meet in the middle.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    I’m amazed that they would (meaning the county) would have ever set up a contact that would affect snowplow drivers to expire in the winter months gives all the power to the union and takes it away from the county. Good for the union not good for the tax payers.
    Its probably an "annual" or by calendar year contract, that expired on 12/31/19 - two weeks is probably the cooling off period. They can walk tonight at midnight.

  8. #8
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    Looks like the only way to get around up here is by sleds this weekend. The state Highways like 169, I-35, and 53 are plowed by the state and should not be effected as much. It will be the smaller county and township roads that will be effected the most.

    FYI the snowmobile trail conditions in Northern St Louis County is the best it has been in years this past week.

  9. #9
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    When did this contract really expire? For the life of me, I can't see having a contract expire at years end in that neck of woods?

  10. #10
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    The timing is absolutely intentional. They're arguing about sick leave days payed out after retirement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6hundy6 View Post
    The timing is absolutely intentional. They're arguing about sick leave days payed out after retirement.
    What was the real date that the contract expired?

  12. #12
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    The labor contact expired 12/31/19

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldguy View Post
    The labor contact expired 12/31/19
    Correct, they are negotiating 2020 thru 2022 contract. The BA for the Union boasted on the TV he hopes they get a ton of snow. The "unfairness" the union is claiming is simply misinformation. If you read the contract the members are being compensated fairly and in the unions words "generously" by the county. The safety of the taxpayers in St Louis county is being leveraged in order to secure additional sick leave payout upon retirement. 350 hours to be exact, from the current 1,150 to 1,500 to employees hired after 2013. Employees hired before then are allowed 1900 hours to be paid out upon retirement. Those hours get paid into a health savings account.

  14. #14
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    Just curious who represents the taxpayers in a strike like this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6hundy6 View Post
    Correct, they are negotiating 2020 thru 2022 contract. The BA for the Union boasted on the TV he hopes they get a ton of snow. The "unfairness" the union is claiming is simply misinformation. If you read the contract the members are being compensated fairly and in the unions words "generously" by the county. The safety of the taxpayers in St Louis county is being leveraged in order to secure additional sick leave payout upon retirement. 350 hours to be exact, from the current 1,150 to 1,500 to employees hired after 2013. Employees hired before then are allowed 1900 hours to be paid out upon retirement. Those hours get paid into a health savings account.
    if the above numbers are correct and that is the main reason they went on strike my opinion is that they are foolish. They want to be able to carry over MORE sick time then 1,150hrs (143 days). Any one else on here able to carry over more then lets say 160hrs.?

    I personally know nothing about this situation other then the info posted above and the little heard on the news but if you are receiving a good paycheck, have good family heath insurance you are crazy to strike over wanting to be able to carry over 350 additional hrs when you are already able to carry 1,150 hrs. Good luck to all involved, we all want more but sometimes have to except the fact what we already have is not all that bad.

  16. #16
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    And to wonder why people have negative opinions of labor unions.... To think of what a normal joe trucker would give to be compensated like these striking clowns are... Then they want MORE??????

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    We are allowed to carry 40 hours of well time in to the next year, that's it. You don't use it, you lose it.
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    We are allowed to carry 40 hours of well time in to the next year, that's it. You don't use it, you lose it.
    So do use or do you opt to lose it?

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    There are always at least two sides to every story. Sometimes 4 or 5. Really hard for me to take sides on this one. The timing could turn out to be really bad though. Hope nobody has a heart attack and dies because the ambulance couldn't make it through the snow.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by renegade View Post
    Just curious who represents the taxpayers in a strike like this?
    Taxpayers are represented by their county officials. There's a mediation group between the county and union.

  21. #21
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    Why would County officials, in that area, allow to have a contract expire at that time of year? Absolute ignorance!

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    never mind

  23. #23
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    The plow driver’s strike is over. We survived around a foot of new snow on the Iron Range from Friday night thru Sunday am. Details of the settlement have not been released yet.

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    to bad . should have fired them all and hired subs with seasonal contracts

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    Quote Originally Posted by ezra View Post
    to bad . should have fired them all and hired subs with seasonal contracts
    I agree. If they pull crap like that they don't deserve the job. I would love a gravy union county job and all the benny's that go along with it. One guy here worked 2 day weeks for the last 3 years before retiring. Had so much sick/vaca time. What a joke....

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    I agree. If they pull crap like that they don't deserve the job. I would love a gravy union county job and all the benny's that go along with it. One guy here worked 2 day weeks for the last 3 years before retiring. Had so much sick/vaca time. What a joke....
    Apply for one if your qualified maybe you can get one.

  27. #27
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    Glad it is over. With that being said, I can't think of one incident that I agreed with a public union strike. This was not about safety or better work conditions, it was about screwing the local tax payers for more carried over time. I will say, with rare exception, what they were asking for does not exist in the private work force. Yet, these clowns want to positions themselves against their neighboring taxpayer. The truck drivers should ask, with their total compensation package, how do they compare to others in their field. I bet they fair well!

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    Apply for one if your qualified maybe you can get one.
    20 years ago ya I should have. Everything the county here runs is brand new or a couple years old. Must be nice. Now we are going to build them a new shop for 10 million bucks. I need a new shop. Wanna give me 10 million to do it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    20 years ago ya I should have. Everything the county here runs is brand new or a couple years old. Must be nice. Now we are going to build them a new shop for 10 million bucks. I need a new shop. Wanna give me 10 million to do it?
    I have always thought.... who would be the best boss to have....a former union member that has started his own business, he would understand what it meant to pay your employees very well, have the best benefits package you can possibly have how nice it was to have the sick pay and vacation no one else had and a pension plan that is almost nonexistent these days. Yes a former union member turned business owner turned boss, guaranteed they would give you what he or she had, after all they knew how important it was to have it.... before it was actually their dime paying for it.....yeah right.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjb View Post
    Glad it is over. With that being said, I can't think of one incident that I agreed with a public union strike. This was not about safety or better work conditions, it was about screwing the local tax payers for more carried over time. I will say, with rare exception, what they were asking for does not exist in the private work force. Yet, these clowns want to positions themselves against their neighboring taxpayer. The truck drivers should ask, with their total compensation package, how do they compare to others in their field. I bet they fair well!
    So if someone works for the public (municipality) they should all work for free to help everyone in that area save money on taxes? Should everyone that works for a car manufacturer or a snowmobile manufacturer work for free so we can get free or cheep trucks and sleds? How about school teachers they have to educate, raise, and discipline everyone’s children and are expected to do it for free and then get blamed when the kids do something stupid, all so the private sector can work 80 hours a week to buy there second homes and all the toys to go with them. If the public jobs are so great go get one.

  31. #31
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    Sounds like there's a huge difference on why they went on strike than you refering them working for "free".



    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    So if someone works for the public (municipality) they should all work for free to help everyone in that area save money on taxes? Should everyone that works for a car manufacturer or a snowmobile manufacturer work for free so we can get free or cheep trucks and sleds? How about school teachers they have to educate, raise, and discipline everyone’s children and are expected to do it for free and then get blamed when the kids do something stupid, all so the private sector can work 80 hours a week to buy there second homes and all the toys to go with them. If the public jobs are so great go get one.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by timo View Post
    Sounds like there's a huge difference on why they went on strike than you refering them working for "free".
    I didn’t say they were working for free but people all think that public sector employees should all work for free. That every time public employees contracts are in the news they get bashed.

  33. #33
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    Dude they went on strike because they wanted to CARRY OVER 1500 HOURS OF SICK LEAVE VS ONLY 1150 HOURS. Tell me how that is anywhere near anyone asking them to work for free???? When the pay and bennys is 2 or 3 times or more over what a private sector job would pay there is a problem. You not thinking that tells me you are a union guy. I just signed paychecks yesterday for my guys. Then I sign the $5500 a month check to pay for their health insurance. Along with all the other things. NOBODY that I know feels sorry for those overpaid govt workers. Nobody. They deserve all the crap that they get. Putting all those people at risk for something as selfish as that??? Ya its understandable the PR disaster that they should feel!!!!! Years ago (like almost 20) I was a union employee at Crenlo in Rochester MN. I would have fired me 3 different times but the union got me off with only a slap on the wrist. I got laid off and a year later the workforce went from 700 to 250. Production actually went up. You know what the difference was??? They kicked the union out of the plant. Sorry for the rant but I have seen both sides. Union workers were sleeping in the pallet racking. Private sector workers get to work.

  34. #34
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    That is the great thing about America if you don’t like it you have the right to change. When companies put in pay freezes because things get tight but the the decision makers still get there pay raises and bonuses that is ok because it is private sector. Yes I have worked union and non union and seen quality work from both. I have also seen the public sector get screwed over because the government changed the rules because they know the majority won’t complain. Slim cake it is great that you can pay all the employees you have and pay for insurance and I will also assume you are still making enough money on the backs of your employees that you can pay them but also have all the things you have and the play time you get. And if I remember they were asking for the sick pay to go into a health care account to probably off set the huge costs of insurance now and in the future.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by ezra View Post
    to bad . should have fired them all and hired subs with seasonal contracts
    SCAB! SCAB!
    He said scab..just kidding.

    I grew up in Green Bay, WI and have seen the demise of unions first hand.
    When I was a senior in high school (1984) "Da Boys" all bragged how the old man was juicing them into one of the 6 paper mills on the Fox River and be making big bucks.

    Great, fall of 1984 I was in Tech school and Da Boys all had new Chev trucks and all was super.
    Two years later, the first paper mill had their team go out on strike and after about 90 days brought in the replacement workers. Time stood still and after many rounds of negotiations the Mill decided to end the contract and retain the replacement workers. NO MORE UNION.
    This was the first of 4 mills that either ended union contracts or outright closed. Today foreign companies bought out these mills and who the heck knows what is going on.
    Only two mills still have unions, for how long..I don't know.
    Sad thing is a few of those Boys that went to the Mills in 1984 work in my organization in front-line positions today and lost it all because they would not cross the picket line.

    Bear

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 1fujifilm View Post
    SCAB! SCAB!
    He said scab..just kidding.

    I grew up in Green Bay, WI and have seen the demise of unions first hand.
    When I was a senior in high school (1984) "Da Boys" all bragged how the old man was juicing them into one of the 6 paper mills on the Fox River and be making big bucks.

    Great, fall of 1984 I was in Tech school and Da Boys all had new Chev trucks and all was super.
    Two years later, the first paper mill had their team go out on strike and after about 90 days brought in the replacement workers. Time stood still and after many rounds of negotiations the Mill decided to end the contract and retain the replacement workers. NO MORE UNION.
    This was the first of 4 mills that either ended union contracts or outright closed. Today foreign companies bought out these mills and who the heck knows what is going on.
    Only two mills still have unions, for how long..I don't know.
    Sad thing is a few of those Boys that went to the Mills in 1984 work in my organization in front-line positions today and lost it all because they would not cross the picket line.

    Bear
    Oh by the way, I do have respect for Unions too, my Father did 20 years at the Post Office after he did 22 years in the Marines.

    I should have took his advice and got juiced into the Post Office in 1984 like my Sister did after college in 1999. She transferred from the USPS to the CBP as a Pilot and makes 50k more a year than I do plus has mandatory retirement in 3 years at 50 years old.
    Don't get me started on the Union retirement; IT MAKES ME ILL and jealous at the same time.

    Bear

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    I had to take a minute to stop laughing.... Its always about what the owner has, how nice of a house he has, or how many toys he has and how nice of a car he drives. My answer to that... being a business owner as well... Everyone has the same opportunity as I or every other business owner has... Go start your own business, yes I agree the employees are an important part of the success of my business but my employees don't have to take the worry home with them, my employees start and end at a fixed time every day, my employees get a paycheck every week regardless of how the business is doing, I personally haven't taken one for 11 weeks, my employees don't have the financial stress or financial skin in the game that I have, my employees have a job to lose if I fail, I have everything to lose if I fail. I know full well about the checks slimcake is talking about because I write them too. But to bring up all the things a business owner has.... HA HA!!! start your own business, id love to work for you because im sure you would share all of the fruits of your hard work and risk with me no questions asked.

  37. #37
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    ooooookay then,,,,
    You just included the word "free" three times in your four sentence post.





    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    I didn’t say they were working for free but people all think that public sector employees should all work for free. That every time public employees contracts are in the news they get bashed.
    - - - Updated - - -

    Amen



    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    Dude they went on strike because they wanted to CARRY OVER 1500 HOURS OF SICK LEAVE VS ONLY 1150 HOURS. Tell me how that is anywhere near anyone asking them to work for free???? When the pay and bennys is 2 or 3 times or more over what a private sector job would pay there is a problem. You not thinking that tells me you are a union guy. I just signed paychecks yesterday for my guys. Then I sign the $5500 a month check to pay for their health insurance. Along with all the other things. NOBODY that I know feels sorry for those overpaid govt workers. Nobody. They deserve all the crap that they get. Putting all those people at risk for something as selfish as that??? Ya its understandable the PR disaster that they should feel!!!!! Years ago (like almost 20) I was a union employee at Crenlo in Rochester MN. I would have fired me 3 different times but the union got me off with only a slap on the wrist. I got laid off and a year later the workforce went from 700 to 250. Production actually went up. You know what the difference was??? They kicked the union out of the plant. Sorry for the rant but I have seen both sides. Union workers were sleeping in the pallet racking. Private sector workers get to work.

  38. #38
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    I owned a Chicago (union city) business for 30 years. Sure I had some sleepless nights. But I knew I couldn't have done it without my hard working employees. So I paid them above and beyond the going rate for their efforts. Sure I had some sleepless nights. But I was still able to retire at 50. So you'll have to excuse me if I don't weep for the sad life story of the poor business owner.

  39. #39
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    Timo reread my post with the work free in it, I never said they work for free but did say that everyone (ie. tax payers) feel like they should work for free. So maybe I over dramatized it by using free but no matter what wage a public employee makes the general public think it is to much and should never ask for anything and just be happy to have a job. As euphoric said his employees have a fixed schedule what about these plow drivers? How many birthdays, Christmas’s basketball games hunting seasons have they given up to have there cushy government jobs?

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    So if someone works for the public (municipality) they should all work for free to help everyone in that area save money on taxes? Should everyone that works for a car manufacturer or a snowmobile manufacturer work for free so we can get free or cheep trucks and sleds? How about school teachers they have to educate, raise, and discipline everyone’s children and are expected to do it for free and then get blamed when the kids do something stupid, all so the private sector can work 80 hours a week to buy there second homes and all the toys to go with them. If the public jobs are so great go get one.
    Read my quote, and don't twist what I say. The truck drivers should be paid at near parity of what other truck drivers in their field. Free, who said free? And if they don't like that wage, jump ship. Right now the market is hot for almost all work sectors. If you are unhappy for any reason, leave. And when that person leaves, the management, in this case the city, needs to attract the next drivers. With those bennies, I bet the line to apply is very, very long, indicating the compensation package is out of whack.

  41. #41
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    The union conceded on the sick hours. The reason they were going after the hours was because other bargaining units had that amount and "it wasn't fair". They failed to bring to light that only 2 of 11 labor bargaining units had that amount of hours. The senior members of the 2 labor parties conceded off of there 1900 hrs to 1500 for all so new members could have the 1500. The snow plow union was not willing to concede the senior members hours for the good of the new members.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjb View Post
    Read my quote, and don't twist what I say. The truck drivers should be paid at near parity of what other truck drivers in their field. Free, who said free? And if they don't like that wage, jump ship. Right now the market is hot for almost all work sectors. If you are unhappy for any reason, leave. And when that person leaves, the management, in this case the city, needs to attract the next drivers. With those bennies, I bet the line to apply is very, very long, indicating the compensation package is out of whack.
    What other truck drivers in the private sector are on call 24/7 365 expected to work nights weekends holiday’s and forever long to rakes to clean up an emergency?

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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    What other truck drivers in the private sector are on call 24/7 365 expected to work nights weekends holiday’s and forever long to rakes to clean up an emergency?
    Anyone who works for themselves. Best part is they have to do it all year. 365 days a year. Whatever it takes. Plow guys?? Ya its 3 and 4 day weekends all spring summer and fall. I never shut my phone off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    Anyone who works for themselves. Best part is they have to do it all year. 365 days a year. Whatever it takes. Plow guys?? Ya its 3 and 4 day weekends all spring summer and fall. I never shut my phone off.
    That is somewhat understandable as a business owner but my question was for truck drivers. And the municipal plow guy is also the one out making road repairs putting out the stop signs that the drunks take out at 2am or cleaning from the summer storm that have happen in the northern part of the Midwest the last few years. I would assume your business caters to the public if you never turn your phone off and anyone that cares for there customers will do that but you also have the right to refuse a job if you want or doesn’t pay enough correct?

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    I worked on a country rental a few years ago that a county public Works employee is renting. It was obvious that him and his close buddies take extended lunches and work breaks on the property (why else would they park the trucks behind a large barn)? I ended up knowing one of the guys that was taking lunch there, he was not shy telling me how good they have it vs the private sector dump truck and low boy truck driving job he had for years before! Because of the fact that the guy never offered to clean up all the dog crap i had to work around in the yard i really wanted to go talk to someone about it, but i tend to just keep my mouth shut.

  46. #46
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    alla you union haters will be squealing even louder in the future when the boomers are gone and so are all of the pensions that they worked hard most of their lives for to keep them welfare free as they aged,....and oh, yes...so will SS be gone as well......and then you post boomers will be left with your after generations of them that will increasingly be devoid of any type of retirement support in their lives once you all squander what your boomer parents and grandparents were bright and caring and energetic enough to put together for your unappreciated inheritance.

    I AM conservative. I am union tradesman trained and worked hard for every penny past present and future that i will collect. You pissy pants haters can all GFY. You have no clue what built this country. You just glam onto the anti union rhetoric and think that makes you a better righty.....you got no clue....have a nice day and come again!
    Last edited by snobuilder; 01-21-2020 at 08:45 PM.

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    Another wonderful comment brought to you by the one and only snobuilder.....

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    I like snobuilders post. Taxes will increase for public aid when the pension generation is gone. Good business owners will be able to hide/reinvest/find write offs to offset the tax increases. Hourly workers can't do that.

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    So all those unfunded liabilities that your unions caused is ok? You guys have a strange perception of how the market works. Suppose you think 15$ min wage is a good idea as well?
    Last edited by slimcake; 01-21-2020 at 09:17 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    alla you union haters will be squealing even louder in the future when the boomers are gone and so are all of the pensions that they worked hard most of their lives for to keep them welfare free as they aged,....and oh, yes...so will SS be gone as well......and then you post boomers will be left with your after generations of them that will increasingly be devoid of any type of retirement support in their lives once you all squander what your boomer parents and grandparents were bright and caring and energetic enough to put together for your unappreciated inheritance.

    I AM conservative. I am union tradesman trained and worked hard for every penny past present and future that i will collect. You pissy pants haters can all GFY. You have no clue what built this country. You just glam onto the anti union rhetoric and think that makes you a better righty.....you got no clue....have a nice day and come again!
    glad you think pensions are all in a lock box just waiting for its workers yo collect . lots have gone under and the union bosses were not the ones getting .
    no public worker should be in a union situation .
    and have no doubt the public employees pension funds in the countery are very sick and will be a massive burden on the tax payer in your life . don't be to shocked when the Fed comes,after your pension to help cover the cost
    Last edited by mspease; 01-22-2020 at 02:50 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    alla you union haters will be squealing even louder in the future when the boomers are gone and so are all of the pensions that they worked hard most of their lives for to keep them welfare free as they aged,....and oh, yes...so will SS be gone as well......and then you post boomers will be left with your after generations of them that will increasingly be devoid of any type of retirement support in their lives once you all squander what your boomer parents and grandparents were bright and caring and energetic enough to put together for your unappreciated inheritance.

    I AM conservative. I am union tradesman trained and worked hard for every penny past present and future that i will collect. You pissy pants haters can all GFY. You have no clue what built this country. You just glam onto the anti union rhetoric and think that makes you a better righty.....you got no clue....have a nice day and come again!
    Ok. This all kind of makes sense now. Hope you had a good time being alive. But you are going to be dead even longer. All your hopes and dreams and money will be gone minutes after you are dead. Not days. Not months. Not years. You are but a zit on the *** of humanity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    Ok. This all kind of makes sense now. Hope you had a good time being alive. But you are going to be dead even longer. All your hopes and dreams and money will be gone minutes after you are dead. Not days. Not months. Not years. You are but a zit on the *** of humanity.
    jesus yur dim. I can't even begin to comprehend what you read into my post....

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    Quote Originally Posted by ezra View Post
    glad you think pensions are all in a lock box just waiting for its workers yo collect . lots have gone under and the union bosses were not the ones getting ****ed .
    no public worker should be in a union situation .
    and have no doubt the public employees pension funds in the countery are very sick and will be a massive burden on the tax payer in your life . don't be to shocked when the Fed comes,after your pension to help cover the cost
    And you will blame the worker and not the management even though both sides had a signature on every agreement ....and then the politicians saw fit to not fund or under fund their side of the agreement.
    That is just nuts, guy....plain nuts.

    Private sectors run on a profit margin. public sectors run on a budget that pays the employees....nothing more. for your stupid private sector equation to work the employees get **** pay and **** benefits which equals **** results while the private sector contractor gets rich on the public's dime. Dream on, there ain't no free lunch. In the end all those poorly paid private sector employees are left with absolutely nothing when they retire.....then what....Dr. Kevorkian gets hired to off them when they become useless to you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    So all those unfunded liabilities that your unions caused is ok? You guys have a strange perception of how the market works. Suppose you think 15$ min wage is a good idea as well?
    if that is the case then ask yurself who "unfunded" them....smh....blame joe lunchbox....he is the easy target.

    $15 an hour ain't squat....smh. Wages have been suppressed for 15+ years.....do some math.....ppl made $5.00 and hour outta high school 45 years ago....add the COL to that and get back to me.
    Last edited by snobuilder; 01-21-2020 at 10:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    Another wonderful comment brought to you by the one and only snobuilder.....
    who works at home depot

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    we the taxpayers will have to pay to fund the pensions that go under, just like with goverment motors, why is that my responsibility? I didnt promise those workers the moon....
    social security going under really pisses me off after paying for it my whole life, dont even get me started on allowing immegrants to collect who havent paid in, nothing but buying votes

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    Quote Originally Posted by POLARISDAN View Post
    who works at home depot
    Yep. I've seen both sides with 1st hand experience. It is real evident which set of employees will need public assistance ie: tax dollars...as they age.

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    I can't carry over anything over 40 hours........it's one bank of time.....called PTO....use if for sick time, vacation time, personal time, kids appts or events, but one bank. Use it or lose it. if you have over 40 hours at the end of the year, they are gone............

    since my place combined the time off pool, instead of having sick time and vaca time..........time off due to sickness dropped significantly. I don't really think sick people are coming to work........just maybe curbs some of those "I don't feel like going to work days."

    heck, I wish I could get paid out for any time that is banked when I retire but that won't happen. 25 years ago they stopped any payouts.

    m8man
    ahh, watch this..

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    jesus yur dim. I can't even begin to comprehend what you read into my post....
    Do you really work for home depot? I need a third opinion on some ceramic tile. All this time you have been right there. Whoed have thunk? Just an fyi. Nobody cares what you think about anything. If this is your last forum for expressing any of your thoughts you are one sorry sob. Have a wonderful day. I will figure out my own ceramic tile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by euphoric1 View Post
    I had to take a minute to stop laughing.... Its always about what the owner has, how nice of a house he has, or how many toys he has and how nice of a car he drives. My answer to that... being a business owner as well... Everyone has the same opportunity as I or every other business owner has... Go start your own business, yes I agree the employees are an important part of the success of my business but my employees don't have to take the worry home with them, my employees start and end at a fixed time every day, my employees get a paycheck every week regardless of how the business is doing, I personally haven't taken one for 11 weeks, my employees don't have the financial stress or financial skin in the game that I have, my employees have a job to lose if I fail, I have everything to lose if I fail. I know full well about the checks slimcake is talking about because I write them too. But to bring up all the things a business owner has.... HA HA!!! start your own business, id love to work for you because im sure you would share all of the fruits of your hard work and risk with me no questions asked.

    Couldn’t of said it better myself!

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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    What other truck drivers in the private sector are on call 24/7 365 expected to work nights weekends holiday’s and forever long to rakes to clean up an emergency?
    Farmers that don't have hired help. Tow truck drivers that own their own businesses. There are plenty of us that can't walk away from what we do because finding someone to take over for you who actually cares now a days is almost impossible! The individual that now drives our milk truck tried to start dairy farming 5 years ago. He barely made it 2 years and declared bankruptcy. He had two employees for 55 cows and custom hired everything done. You can't make it work that way. Yes there are other things we could do but this is the choice we made. I went through St Louis county on Saturday and it was a very bad time to risk the lives of people in the community in order to get what they were after.

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    Quote Originally Posted by euphoric1 View Post
    I had to take a minute to stop laughing.... Its always about what the owner has, how nice of a house he has, or how many toys he has and how nice of a car he drives. My answer to that... being a business owner as well... Everyone has the same opportunity as I or every other business owner has... Go start your own business, yes I agree the employees are an important part of the success of my business but my employees don't have to take the worry home with them, my employees start and end at a fixed time every day, my employees get a paycheck every week regardless of how the business is doing, I personally haven't taken one for 11 weeks, my employees don't have the financial stress or financial skin in the game that I have, my employees have a job to lose if I fail, I have everything to lose if I fail. I know full well about the checks slimcake is talking about because I write them too. But to bring up all the things a business owner has.... HA HA!!! start your own business, id love to work for you because im sure you would share all of the fruits of your hard work and risk with me no questions asked.
    X100

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    Quote Originally Posted by euphoric1 View Post
    I had to take a minute to stop laughing.... Its always about what the owner has, how nice of a house he has, or how many toys he has and how nice of a car he drives. My answer to that... being a business owner as well... Everyone has the same opportunity as I or every other business owner has... Go start your own business, yes I agree the employees are an important part of the success of my business but my employees don't have to take the worry home with them, my employees start and end at a fixed time every day, my employees get a paycheck every week regardless of how the business is doing, I personally haven't taken one for 11 weeks, my employees don't have the financial stress or financial skin in the game that I have, my employees have a job to lose if I fail, I have everything to lose if I fail. I know full well about the checks slimcake is talking about because I write them too. But to bring up all the things a business owner has.... HA HA!!! start your own business, id love to work for you because im sure you would share all of the fruits of your hard work and risk with me no questions asked.
    As a business owner myself...I couldn't have said it any better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    Do you really work for home depot? I need a third opinion on some ceramic tile. All this time you have been right there. Whoed have thunk? Just an fyi. Nobody cares what you think about anything. If this is your last forum for expressing any of your thoughts you are one sorry sob. Have a wonderful day. I will figure out my own ceramic tile.
    LVT is where it's at today fella. It is fast, fairly cheap and easy....but if you insist on ceramic and I'd assume in your bathroom then I'd recommend putting down a heating element to warm those tootsies on them cold and barren days/nights in ND.
    Now please excuse me....I have a store to open.

    Have a nice day and maybe give menards a try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    LVT is where it's at today fella. It is fast, fairly cheap and easy....but if you insist on ceramic and I'd assume in your bathroom then I'd recommend putting down a heating element to warm those tootsies on them cold and barren days/nights in ND.
    Now please excuse me....I have a store to open.

    Have a nice day and maybe give menards a try.
    FWIW - agree LVT is the way to go. Put it in my basement 3 years ago and super happy. Way better than tile - warm on the feet, doesn't crack, easy to clean up!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesin View Post
    we the taxpayers will have to pay to fund the pensions that go under, just like with goverment motors, why is that my responsibility? I didnt promise those workers the moon....
    social security going under really pisses me off after paying for it my whole life, dont even get me started on allowing immegrants to collect who havent paid in, nothing but buying votes
    And that is why since then I have not bought a GM vehicle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    And you will blame the worker and not the management even though both sides had a signature on every agreement ....and then the politicians saw fit to not fund or under fund their side of the agreement.
    That is just nuts, guy....plain nuts.

    Private sectors run on a profit margin. public sectors run on a budget that pays the employees....nothing more. for your stupid private sector equation to work the employees get **** pay and **** benefits which equals **** results while the private sector contractor gets rich on the public's dime. Dream on, there ain't no free lunch. In the end all those poorly paid private sector employees are left with absolutely nothing when they retire.....then what....Dr. Kevorkian gets hired to off them when they become useless to you?

    - - - Updated - - -



    if that is the case then ask yurself who "unfunded" them....smh....blame joe lunchbox....he is the easy target.

    $15 an hour ain't squat....smh. Wages have been suppressed for 15+ years.....do some math.....ppl made $5.00 and hour outta high school 45 years ago....add the COL to that and get back to me.
    When we start talking about pensions, people have been "surviving" a lot long then we use to, creating an upside down effect with these funds. They than became a considerable amount of an unfunded liability. The private sector, ie shareholders, realized this and needed to phase out this liability. Hence, for the most part, private pensions went away. However, the public sector is slow to adapt, and to a certain extent, in cases held hostage in public unions. The difference between the private and public worker, is the tax payer is the one strung out for the bad deal, not the shareholder. Again, total compensation package often for the public union gig is well above the wage of the private working doing the same task, something is amiss. In this particular case with the truck drivers, they are negotiating way above the private market on what to carry over, which is screwing the tax payer. To me, it is that black and white. What the city board really needs to do, is settle this contract, then have it renew in May where the city can't be held hostage over potential snow fall. But then again, not to often have I seen the government work in a smart way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjb View Post
    When we start talking about pensions, people have been "surviving" a lot long then we use to, creating an upside down effect with these funds. They than became a considerable amount of an unfunded liability. The private sector, ie shareholders, realized this and needed to phase out this liability. Hence, for the most part, private pensions went away. However, the public sector is slow to adapt, and to a certain extent, in cases held hostage in public unions. The difference between the private and public worker, is the tax payer is the one strung out for the bad deal, not the shareholder. Again, total compensation package often for the public union gig is well above the wage of the private working doing the same task, something is amiss. In this particular case with the truck drivers, they are negotiating way above the private market on what to carry over, which is screwing the tax payer. To me, it is that black and white. What the city board really needs to do, is settle this contract, then have it renew in May where the city can't be held hostage over potential snow fall. But then again, not to often have I seen the government work in a smart way.
    In bold....that what actuarials are for.

    My FIL worked for the local county as a mechanic and drive/operator from the late 70's to the early 2000's. They did not get paid more than the private sector equivalent at the same skill level. Exactly the opposite. There were concessions given at nearly every contract date. Supposedly in exchange for job security.

    If the management side of the table agrees with and signs the bargain, it is up to them to follow through with the deal made. If they didn't bargain in good faith with a funding plan then it is squarely on them not the guy with the lunchbox.

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    Couple highlights from this article... Those states are just in terrific financial shape aren't they....

    https://thehill.com/policy/finance/479400-union-membership-falls-to-record-low-of-103-percent


    With $1,095 in median weekly earnings, union workers out-earned nonunion workers' median $892 salaries by 22.7 percent.

    BLS found that over half of all the nation’s 14.6 million union members were concentrated in just seven states, even though those states only accounted for a third of the workforce.
    Those states included California with 2.5 million unionized workers, New York with 1.7 million, Illinois with 0.8 million, Pennsylvania with 0.7 million, and New Jersey, Ohio and Washington, each with 0.6 million.




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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    In bold....that what actuarials are for.

    My FIL worked for the local county as a mechanic and drive/operator from the late 70's to the early 2000's. They did not get paid more than the private sector equivalent at the same skill level. Exactly the opposite. There were concessions given at nearly every contract date. Supposedly in exchange for job security.

    If the management side of the table agrees with and signs the bargain, it is up to them to follow through with the deal made. If they didn't bargain in good faith with a funding plan then it is squarely on them not the guy with the lunchbox.
    I think we might agree here. What I believe, in most private sectors, there has been a "correction" made with union contracts in recent years - to more align with what actuarials are stating life might last, or other factors. What hasn't happened in many places is that "correction" has not occurred in the public sector unions, with some exception. This did happen in WI a few years back and gave the local governments back control of those costs, right where it should belong. And if the local governments would like to pay the public sector union job an inflated wage (be it hourly, benefits or pension), so be it. The tax payer, or more so the voter, can agree to that with their elected official.

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    we all got money to support such things as $324,000,000 9 year contract for a baseball pitcher but our garbage man is grossly overpaid......smh.lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    we all got money to support such things as $324,000,000 9 year contract for a baseball pitcher but our garbage man is grossly overpaid......smh….lol
    Apples and oranges. We CHOOSE to support our local sports teams. When we don't like what they are doing, we choose not to support them. I think they are grossly over-paid. But it is simply economics. Do you know why the women's soccer makes a lot less than the men's soccer team? Because there isn't nearly the market, or reach as men's. Economy 101.

    In most cities, we can't choose if we want the garbage picked up or not, and to pay for it. It is simply part of our tax bill. What we pay him or her, should be market value for that particular skill set. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I will take this conversation down another path I know an awful lot about. These folks had better be bringing some sort of value to what they do, or they will be replaced by artificial intelligence. Let's discuss fast food employees who went on strike in Canada. I might not have all my facts perfectly accurate, but they were demanding something like $15/hour. The powers at be (believe it was the city or province) gave in and they were all making $15/hour. Guess what? That particular job skill set isn't worth $15/hour and the alternative is AI. Seldom in Canada will you see someone actually taking your order. It is done on a kiosk. Anything that can be automated will be when the value of the skill set doesn't demand what you are receiving in compensation. Simply put, a lot of people who were taking orders are now out of a job. Was that really the smart thing to do? But I guess who is left are not making $15/hr.

    Same will happen to the garbage pickup. The days of collecting more than one is worth are going away. So one needs to find that skill set that DRIVES value or can't be replaced by machine and AI, or you will be left on the curbside. One does not have to like this trend, but it is happening either way. I know myself embrace change and jumped on board. Fighting it will only put you on the side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjb View Post
    Apples and oranges. We CHOOSE to support our local sports teams. When we don't like what they are doing, we choose not to support them. I think they are grossly over-paid. But it is simply economics.
    Do you know why the women's soccer makes a lot less than the men's soccer team? Because there isn't nearly the market, or reach as men's. Economy 101.

    In most cities, we can't choose if we want the garbage picked up or not, and to pay for it. It is simply part of our tax bill. What we pay him or her, should be market value for that particular skill set. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I will take this conversation down another path I know an awful lot about. These folks had better be bringing some sort of value to what they do, or they will be replaced by artificial intelligence. Let's discuss fast food employees who went on strike in Canada. I might not have all my facts perfectly accurate, but they were demanding something like $15/hour. The powers at be (believe it was the city or province) gave in and they were all making $15/hour. Guess what? That particular job skill set isn't worth $15/hour and the alternative is AI. Seldom in Canada will you see someone actually taking your order. It is done on a kiosk. Anything that can be automated will be when the value of the skill set doesn't demand what you are receiving in compensation. Simply put, a lot of people who were taking orders are now out of a job. Was that really the smart thing to do? But I guess who is left are not making $15/hr.

    Same will happen to the garbage pickup. The days of collecting more than one is worth are going away. So one needs to find that skill set that DRIVES value or can't be replaced by machine and AI, or you will be left on the curbside. One does not have to like this trend, but it is happening either way. I know myself embrace change and jumped on board. Fighting it will only put you on the side.
    A garbage strike will affect 100% more ppl than a sports league strike. ...reality

    plenty of "artificial intelligence" being created an overpriced semester at a time if you ask me. fast food and cell phones are both road hazards. I'd promote neither.

    soccer players get paid?

    Your fast food employees are unionized in Canada?

    $15.00 an hour ain't squat and the cost of a machine to replace a human far outweighs that rate. It also moves us further down the path of zero face to face human interaction which will be the inevitable death of society as we know it.

    so what do we do with all of the humans that the likes of you are eager to replace with alla yur AI....who pays for there existence when machines replace them?

    nixon saw the huge burden and threat of China way back in the 60's and that administration understood that they needed jobs to appease and control an eventual global threat if that country starved in the nuke age. Really quite remarkable where it took us.

    we need jobs or society rots. we need expendable income if we want to thrive. biggest problem I see is the self serving egos of the well educated that need to look down at the calloused handed in society that do your bitch work....well educated?...not really.

    Have a nice day....come again.
    Last edited by mspease; 01-24-2020 at 12:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    A garbage strike will affect 100% more ppl than a sports league strike. ...reality

    plenty of "artificial intelligence" being created an overpriced semester at a time if you ask me. fast food and cell phones are both road hazards. I'd promote neither.

    soccer players get paid?

    Your fast food employees are unionized in Canada?

    $15.00 an hour ain't squat and the cost of a machine to replace a human far outweighs that rate. It also moves us further down the path of zero face to face human interaction which will be the inevitable death of society as we know it.

    so what do we do with all of the humans that the likes of you are eager to replace with alla yur bull**** AI....who pays for there existence when machines replace them?

    nixon saw the huge burden and threat of China way back in the 60's and that administration understood that they needed jobs to appease and control an eventual global threat if that country starved in the nuke age. Really quite remarkable where it took us.

    we need jobs or society rots. we need expendable income if we want to thrive. biggest problem I see is the self serving egos of the well educated that need to look down at the calloused handed in society that do your bitch work....well educated?...not really.

    Have a nice day....come again.
    Agree! Eisenhower economics! You have to have more haves, than have nots to make the economy grow. Too many more have nots, than haves, economy doesn't grow! The economy is just like a tree, it grows from the roots, yes, the bottom.
    Last edited by old abe; 01-23-2020 at 08:16 PM.

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    The biggest contributor to the growth of the so called have nots was the introduction and implementation of Trickle Down economics or supply side economics or as Bush called it Voodoo economics back in the 80s period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saber1 View Post
    The biggest contributor to the growth of the so called have nots was the introduction and implementation of Trickle Down economics or supply side economics or as Bush called it Voodoo economics back in the 80s period.
    Agree. It just never worked out as promised, never does, and never will! Every time VooDoo Economics policy is tried, it always ends in failure, recession, and explosive national debt! Running a business as this, and the same exact results, failure. There is no way around it, figures don't lie, however liars figure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Agree. It just never worked out as promised, never does, and never will! Every time VooDoo Economics policy is tried, it always ends in failure, recession, and explosive national debt! Running a business as this, and the same exact results, failure. There is no way around it, figures don't lie, however liars figure.

    LOL ...agree

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    LOL ...agree
    Yes, you bet, and history provides all the truth in what I posted.

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    There’s definitely still a place for unions today, and their origins a century ago make complete sense. It’s also true that some of the work norms we enjoy today were originally brought to the table by the unions many years ago.

    That said, when they represent folks that aren’t employed in either a dangerous and/or skilled labor field, and they demand pay and benefits far outside the realm of what the same individual would command in the private sector, then the pendulum of power has swung too far in the other direction. You’ve lost me (and I would hazard a guess the huge majority of other Americans) at that point.

    Work is work. It’s not supposed to be fun. If your job doesn’t pay enough it’s likely not because your employer is an arse; it’s more likely that your skills and/or education don’t merit a higher salary. Improve yourself and find a different job. This is America, you’re free to do so. There’s pell grant and loans for college, or apprenticeships in the skilled trades. There’s no caste system here holding you back; life is what you make of it.
    Last edited by ICT Sledder; 01-25-2020 at 01:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ICT Sledder View Post
    There’s definitely still a place for unions today, and their origins a century ago make complete sense. It’s also true that some of the work norms we enjoy today were originally brought to the table by the unions many years ago.

    That said, when they represent folks that aren’t employed in either a dangerous and/or skilled labor field, and they demand pay and benefits far outside the realm of what the same individual would command in the private sector, then the pendulum of power has swung too far in the other direction. You’ve lost me (and I would hazard a guess the huge majority of other Americans) at that point.

    Work is work. It’s not supposed to be fun. If your job doesn’t pay enough it’s likely not because your employer is an arse; it’s more likely that your skills and/or education don’t merit a higher salary. Improve yourself and find a different job. This is America, you’re free to do so. There’s pell grant and loans for college, or apprenticeships in the skilled trades. There’s no caste system here holding you back; life is what you make of it.
    Yes, just looking for a fair balance, and all is well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ICT Sledder View Post
    There’s definitely still a place for unions today, and their origins a century ago make complete sense. It’s also true that some of the work norms we enjoy today were originally brought to the table by the unions many years ago.

    That said, when they represent folks that aren’t employed in either a dangerous and/or skilled labor field, and they demand pay and benefits far outside the realm of what the same individual would command in the private sector, then the pendulum of power has swung too far in the other direction. You’ve lost me (and I would hazard a guess the huge majority of other Americans) at that point.

    Work is work. It’s not supposed to be fun. If your job doesn’t pay enough it’s likely not because your employer is an arse; it’s more likely that your skills and/or education don’t merit a higher salary. Improve yourself and find a different job. This is America, you’re free to do so. There’s pell grant and loans for college, or apprenticeships in the skilled trades. There’s no caste system here holding you back; life is what you make of it.
    Very well said!

    I have refrained from commenting on this topic, due to the strong emotional argument from both sides of the fence. There are very valid arguments from each side of that fence. That being said, we should all acknowledge the mantra, "those who don't learn from history, are condemned to repeat it".

    Whether you agree with unions or not, history proves that labor unions created the "middle class". Without labor unions, there is no such thing!

    I think it's fair to say that the majority of people reading this board fall into the "middle class". Whether your a union member, small business owner, manager, CEO, whatever....your monetary value has been influenced by labor unions. Be it directly or indirectly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snoluver1 View Post
    Very well said!

    I have refrained from commenting on this topic, due to the strong emotional argument from both sides of the fence. There are very valid arguments from each side of that fence. That being said, we should all acknowledge the mantra, "those who don't learn from history, are condemned to repeat it".

    Whether you agree with unions or not, history proves that labor unions created the "middle class". Without labor unions, there is no such thing!

    I think it's fair to say that the majority of people reading this board fall into the "middle class". Whether your a union member, small business owner, manager, CEO, whatever....your monetary value has been influenced by labor unions. Be it directly or indirectly.
    Well said!

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Well said!
    Agree.

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    I was gonna quit but... While I agree with your statement I need to say one thing. The unions of the 50's and 60's we're great. Today they all are a bit too top heavy. The days of worried about worker safety and a good wage ended a long time ago. Yes unions helped with that. Different times now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    I was gonna quit but... While I agree with your statement I need to say one thing.
    The unions of the 50's and 60's we're great. Today they all are a bit too top heavy. The days of worried about worker safety and a good wage ended a long time ago. Yes unions helped with that. Different times now.
    How would you know?
    Nothing is as simple as we all try to make it seem in our own psyche.20200125_142857.jpgdude got a fat wallet.
    Last edited by snobuilder; 01-27-2020 at 09:22 PM.

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    https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2...hip-in-one-map Interesting how union membership was the highest during the high growth periods of the 50s and 60s with an average of 31% union membership compared to todays 10% just saying.I believe the balance of power has shifted a long time ago.Another interesting statistic is a lot of the poorer states have the lowest union membership, coincidence? maybe or maybe not and just to be transparent im not a union member im in sales. My father was a union Industrial Painter painted highway bridges,smokestacks,actually painted the Chicago skyway as well as some dangerous Water Towers,The union during that period help introduce a lot of safety programs as the industry changed from the early 70s to today so i dont think unions are not needed anymore They will always be a necessary evil.I find funny that Slimcake said unions of today are top heavy not anymore than some CEO pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saber1 View Post
    https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2...hip-in-one-map Interesting how union membership was the highest during the high growth periods of the 50s and 60s with an average of 31% union membership compared to todays 10% just saying.I believe the balance of power has shifted a long time ago.Another interesting statistic is a lot of the poorer states have the lowest union membership, coincidence? maybe or maybe not and just to be transparent im not a union member im in sales. My father was a union Industrial Painter painted highway bridges,smokestacks,actually painted the Chicago skyway as well as some dangerous Water Towers,The union during that period help introduce a lot of safety programs as the industry changed from the early 70s to today so i dont think unions are not needed anymore They will always be a necessary evil.I find funny that Slimcake said unions of today are top heavy not anymore than some CEO pay.
    Could not AGREE more! Very well said, all of it!

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