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  1. #1
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    Default Stay On The Trail......

    The trails here in Marathon County,WI have been open for 3 days or less, depending on the area of the county. It is amazing the number of instances of sleds off trail riding already. This is not the UP. This is central WI farmland. We depend on many generous private landowners every year. If you ride off the trail, you are trespassing and risking a trail closure. Please stay on the trail, or stay home. This problem gets worse every year, and sooner or later will result in trail closures that never open again. GET WITH THE PROGRAM, OR STAY HOME!

  2. #2
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    You can't fix stupid!

  3. #3
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    It's to bad we can't put up a forum for the idiots and violators that are the culprits. I know there is a lot people on here that spend countless hours volunteering their time to put in the trails and maintain then every year which includes having to sit down with frustrated landowners when this type of activity happens. I also feel that it's not the people that read or post on this forum that are the violators. Every year we spend countless hours staking, brushing, maintaining the trails so everyone can enjoy them and we get people that can't even keep their sleds between the stakes. It would not matter to some of them where we staked a trail, they would not follow it. As a guy that is now in his sixties with not a lot of young people coming up in our club (I belong to a club in Waukesha County presently) it certainly would be a breath of fresh air to just see everyone abide by the rules. We just received about 4" of heavy packing snow by us with a couple more coming so perhaps the trails down here may even open this week for the first time this year. Like most of us I wouldn't do it unless I liked it, keep the faith and ride safe!

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimAndros View Post
    You can't fix stupid!
    EXACTLY! still amazes me that people just don't get it, there is a serious lack of respect for rules these days and like I say.... entitlement is no longer just a government program...

  5. #5
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    Snowmobilers and ATV'ers are our own worst enemy.

    Don~

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by euphoric1 View Post
    EXACTLY! still amazes me that people just don't get it, there is a serious lack of respect for rules these days and like I say.... entitlement is no longer just a government program...
    Just more of the "I don't care" attitude! It's all over everything now days!

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Just more of the "I don't care" attitude! It's all over everything now days!
    Just like them Dang Woodchucks!!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT1tlOcLVHI

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zto6FJRD56Q

    Seriously though, it's getting worse and it'll be harder and harder to find land owners that will allow trails.
    Last edited by gary_in_neenah; 01-18-2020 at 03:03 PM.

  8. #8
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    Unfortunately it will take some of us sitting on our trails waiting to catch these morons ‘red handed’ before anything will change. It’s always the few that screw it up for the masses:

  9. #9
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    A couple of sleds ran the PL Golf course a few days ago.
    You could see where they crossed the highway and rode into the course.
    You can't do that.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sandylake View Post
    A couple of sleds ran the PL Golf course a few days ago.
    You could see where they crossed the highway and rode into the course.
    You can't do that.
    The people who commit trespassing on private, or public property, are the same ones who cry the loudest on law enforcement doing their jobs! No way around it!

  11. #11

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    Last edited by bobt; 01-19-2020 at 01:25 PM.

  12. #12
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    On a positive note. My 13 year old and I were out today and I was impressed with all the courteous riders that we met. Not 1 idiot flying on the wrong side of the trail. Everyone stayed right, slowed down, some waved. It was a great ride with my son. Doesn't get much better than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jr37 View Post
    On a positive note. My 13 year old and I were out today and I was impressed with all the courteous riders that we met. Not 1 idiot flying on the wrong side of the trail. Everyone stayed right, slowed down, some waved. It was a great ride with my son. Doesn't get much better than that.
    We had a similar experience this weekend on the 100 miler and LMT trails. A few brake stabs from both directions but no one made it too scary.
    Heavy use of hand signals is warranted on these twisties.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    We had a similar experience this weekend on the 100 miler and LMT trails. A few brake stabs from both directions but no one made it too scary.
    Heavy use of hand signals is warranted on these twisties.
    Those trails must have been nuts traffic-wise.

    I'm not sold on hand-signals anymore, I see many slow riders have guys catching them which creates a false-signal (last guy showing no more in their party) and even myself who slowed down this past Friday riding alone allowed 4 guys (or gals, was Women on Snow weekend) to pass me.
    It's a nice concept but may be outdated now. Especially in WI, I saw 20-25 year old sleds riding in packs doing hand-signals and were getting lapped.
    A young kid with a family was darting all over (riding like a 1987 Poo Touring) and gave me a hand-signal and came over the center-line near McCauslin Golf Course in Lakewood. Parents probably taught him to be kind with the signals but just my 2 cents.

    Bear

  15. #15
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    You guys are just talking to yourself...like a bunch of old women. This is no different than the “stay on the right side of the trail” threads. Highly likely the folks in this forum are not the people riding off trail where not allowed..

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fujifilm View Post
    Those trails must have been nuts traffic-wise.

    I'm not sold on hand-signals anymore, I see many slow riders have guys catching them which creates a false-signal (last guy showing no more in their party) and even myself who slowed down this past Friday riding alone allowed 4 guys (or gals, was Women on Snow weekend) to pass me.
    It's a nice concept but may be outdated now. Especially in WI, I saw 20-25 year old sleds riding in packs doing hand-signals and were getting lapped.
    A young kid with a family was darting all over (riding like a 1987 Poo Touring) and gave me a hand-signal and came over the center-line near McCauslin Golf Course in Lakewood. Parents probably taught him to be kind with the signals but just my 2 cents.

    Bear
    Yea I get that but I still appreciate the effort from the fast guy up front letting me know how many buds are trying to catch him....like I said we rode mostly blind corners past 2 days....plus I wanted to let them know that my precious was not far behind...lol

  17. #17
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    " Especially in WI, I saw 20-25 year old sleds riding in packs doing hand-signals and were getting lapped"

    My sleds today were 19 and 22 years old, we averaged around 30 mph, and I waved at a few other sleds. I hope that was ok. Because we sure enjoyed our day.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fujifilm View Post
    Those trails must have been nuts traffic-wise.

    I'm not sold on hand-signals anymore, I see many slow riders have guys catching them which creates a false-signal (last guy showing no more in their party) and even myself who slowed down this past Friday riding alone allowed 4 guys (or gals, was Women on Snow weekend) to pass me.
    It's a nice concept but may be outdated now. Especially in WI, I saw 20-25 year old sleds riding in packs doing hand-signals and were getting lapped.
    A young kid with a family was darting all over (riding like a 1987 Poo Touring) and gave me a hand-signal and came over the center-line near McCauslin Golf Course in Lakewood. Parents probably taught him to be kind with the signals but just my 2 cents. Bear
    Hand signals are great if you can safely do them, but are not necessary. You should ride as if there is a sled coming around every corner. This past week when it was cold, I ran gauntlets. I can promise you it is more dangerous for me to pull my hands out of the gauntlet, signal, and try to get them back in the gauntlet, than simply not doing anything than keeping my hands on the bars. With my wife and kids who are less experienced, I tell them not to hand signal. I just want them to focus on keeping their machine under control.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjb View Post
    Hand signals are great if you can safely do them, but are not necessary. You should ride as if there is a sled coming around every corner. This past week when it was cold, I ran gauntlets. I can promise you it is more dangerous for me to pull my hands out of the gauntlet, signal, and try to get them back in the gauntlet, than simply not doing anything than keeping my hands on the bars. With my wife and kids who are less experienced, I tell them not to hand signal. I just want them to focus on keeping their machine under control.
    I find that what you are saying is a common mantra on the websites yet on the trails I'd say 95% use them and without a problem.
    Yeah, it looks silly when 10 sleds are coming at me riding nose to tail on a rr grade but I still appreciate the gesture.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jr37 View Post
    " Especially in WI, I saw 20-25 year old sleds riding in packs doing hand-signals and were getting lapped"

    My sleds today were 19 and 22 years old, we averaged around 30 mph, and I waved at a few other sleds. I hope that was ok. Because we sure enjoyed our day.
    A 30 MPH average is quite decent, I rode with some fast fellas (you know who you are) with top sleds 2 weeks ago and we averaged 37 MPH riding 25% grades.

    Bear

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    Yea I get that but I still appreciate the effort from the fast guy up front letting me know how many buds are trying to catch him....like I said we rode mostly blind corners past 2 days....plus I wanted to let them know that my precious was not far behind...lol
    u have a precious? omg thats gotta be a topic of conversation

    probably some dude riding your yami

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by sjb View Post
    Hand signals are great if you can safely do them, but are not necessary. You should ride as if there is a sled coming around every corner. This past week when it was cold, I ran gauntlets. I can promise you it is more dangerous for me to pull my hands out of the gauntlet, signal, and try to get them back in the gauntlet, than simply not doing anything than keeping my hands on the bars. With my wife and kids who are less experienced, I tell them not to hand signal. I just want them to focus on keeping their machine under control.

    Took out the 12 and 13 year old who just got certified this fall for the first time today. They had direct orders to not take their hands off the handles. After the accident they saw up by Tower MN last night they listened. Hope the sledder recovers. Legally crossing bridge when hit by oncoming vehicle. Don't know exact story. Explained to the youngest two that with one parent leading, three older siblings surrounding them, and Dad bringing up the rear that there would be plenty of hand signals. 30 miles, dinner, and some it's kind of cold out comments. Good first ride and had them stop and thank the neighbor for letting us cross his land to get to the trail. No way am I raising someone who thinks it's ok to jeapordize this sport. Happy trails.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by POLARISDAN View Post
    u have a precious? omg thats gotta be a topic of conversation

    probably some dude riding your yami
    Dude now you did it. I think you like getting snobuilder on a tangent just to see what he says. You two should stick together. You've both been harassed here lately for what you say. You should start a club.

  23. #23
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    PD is precious.....precious dan....
    Last edited by snobuilder; 01-20-2020 at 04:07 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkHardPlayHrd View Post
    Took out the 12 and 13 year old who just got certified this fall for the first time today. They had direct orders to not take their hands off the handles. After the accident they saw up by Tower MN last night they listened. Hope the sledder recovers. Legally crossing bridge when hit by oncoming vehicle. Don't know exact story. Explained to the youngest two that with one parent leading, three older siblings surrounding them, and Dad bringing up the rear that there would be plenty of hand signals. 30 miles, dinner, and some it's kind of cold out comments. Good first ride and had them stop and thank the neighbor for letting us cross his land to get to the trail. No way am I raising someone who thinks it's ok to jeapordize this sport. Happy trails.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Dude now you did it. I think you like getting snobuilder on a tangent just to see what he says. You two should stick together. You've both been harassed here lately for what you say. You should start a club.
    when have i been harassed? and my spat with skylar dont count

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    PD is precious.....precious dan....
    ha..gud one..except i wont ride ur yami

  25. #25
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    I was always sit'n on the fence rail about the hand signal debacle till we was scratching up the 102 this Sunday afternoon heading up towards the clouds... On this journey we past by two different groups of a dads and young'ns seemingly ride'n to their abilities who had no issues proudly signal'n how many left in the group... I'm sure iffen we was doing a Harley hand or Jeep wave there wouldnt even be a topic here... Maybe from now on I'll just give a sledhead salute to the all the fast guys who can't mantain control without all their flipper digits on the bars just to thank them for their service to the sport of Snowmachine'n...

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pclark View Post
    It's to bad we can't put up a forum for the idiots and violators that are the culprits. I know there is a lot people on here that spend countless hours volunteering their time to put in the trails and maintain then every year which includes having to sit down with frustrated landowners when this type of activity happens. I also feel that it's not the people that read or post on this forum that are the violators. Every year we spend countless hours staking, brushing, maintaining the trails so everyone can enjoy them and we get people that can't even keep their sleds between the stakes. It would not matter to some of them where we staked a trail, they would not follow it. As a guy that is now in his sixties with not a lot of young people coming up in our club (I belong to a club in Waukesha County presently) it certainly would be a breath of fresh air to just see everyone abide by the rules. We just received about 4" of heavy packing snow by us with a couple more coming so perhaps the trails down here may even open this week for the first time this year. Like most of us I wouldn't do it unless I liked it, keep the faith and ride safe!
    Very well said! There is so much work involved as is, not to mention trying to maintain landowner trust and relationships. That's the importance of the safety classes from club members, and not DNR. We stress the importance of clubs and staying in-between stakes.

    I rode Marathon on Sunday. Left from Halder and went up towards Rib Mtn and Marathon City. Good to see everyone was staying within the stakes. A lot of families out riding. Lot of smooth trails, so appreciate the groomers!!

    If I never had to read a hand signal thread again, life would be good.

  27. #27
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    While in the trails this summer a group gave me hand signals. I gave them all the "pleeeeeze" wave, shook my head and rolled my eyes back at them

  28. #28
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    Saw and talked to some kids west of Park Falls on Sunday who were 100' out in the middle of a field off the trail, not 200 yards from a sign that said STAY ON TRAIL OR WE WILL LOSE IT - are people just that illiterate these days or just that entitled?? They were all apologetic while I was standing there talking to them after I waved them back onto the trail to chat with them - they simply don't understand what it takes to get trails put in, and keep land owners willing to let us cross their property.

    And I know we are just a bunch of old ladies talking to ourselves on here, but we are the ones that have to have these conversations with people on/off the trails - no one else is going to do it.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamadooed View Post
    I was always sit'n on the fence rail about the hand signal debacle till we was scratching up the 102 this Sunday afternoon heading up towards the clouds... On this journey we past by two different groups of a dads and young'ns seemingly ride'n to their abilities who had no issues proudly signal'n how many left in the group... I'm sure iffen we was doing a Harley hand or Jeep wave there wouldnt even be a topic here... Maybe from now on I'll just give a sledhead salute to the all the fast guys who can't mantain control without all their flipper digits on the bars just to thank them for their service to the sport of Snowmachine'n...
    I have to admit, I feel like a douche not signalling back.

    Bear

  30. #30
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    I do most of the time just depends on the trail told the GF to just ride and do not signal Keep both hands on the bars she would be dangerous

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    Quote Originally Posted by yamadooed View Post
    I was always sit'n on the fence rail about the hand signal debacle till we was scratching up the 102 this Sunday afternoon heading up towards the clouds... On this journey we past by two different groups of a dads and young'ns seemingly ride'n to their abilities who had no issues proudly signal'n how many left in the group... I'm sure iffen we was doing a Harley hand or Jeep wave there wouldnt even be a topic here... Maybe from now on I'll just give a sledhead salute to the all the fast guys who can't mantain control without all their flipper digits on the bars just to thank them for their service to the sport of Snowmachine'n...
    Like button pushed.

    We have what we need to keep this motorsport alive and it is evident in the parents riding 2 and even 3 up on those great occasions when it is possible.
    Let 'em train you as you train them and signal back.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by harvest1121 View Post
    I do most of the time just depends on the trail told the GF to just ride and do not signal Keep both hands on the bars she would be dangerous
    Agree 100%
    When breaking in new riders, I start with, don't signal. The leader and sweep will worry about good signals. Then as they get skills, I start them only use hand signals on straight groomed spots, but always both hands on bars in corners. Usually a couple years till I'm comfortable with my newbies signaling in corners and moguls.
    Since I'm talking about new riders. My biggest WARNING to them is Be Extra Cautious at all bridges.
    My pet peeve is.
    Approaches and exit from bridges are always being torn up by riders pinning it on their exit.
    Makes approaching bridges, as dangerous, or maybe even more dangerous than corners. New riders don't see the moguls, especially in flat light conditions.
    Rant over, Thanks for reading.

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    Actually the bridges get mogulled up by them who brake as they approach and gather up the snow.

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    Right. Especially since MI got rid of Bridge Ahead signs.

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sweeperguy View Post
    Agree 100%
    When breaking in new riders, I start with, don't signal. The leader and sweep will worry about good signals. Then as they get skills, I start them only use hand signals on straight groomed spots, but always both hands on bars in corners. Usually a couple years till I'm comfortable with my newbies signaling in corners and moguls.
    Since I'm talking about new riders. My biggest WARNING to them is Be Extra Cautious at all bridges.
    My pet peeve is.
    Approaches and exit from bridges are always being torn up by riders pinning it on their exit.
    Makes approaching bridges, as dangerous, or maybe even more dangerous than corners. New riders don't see the moguls, especially in flat light conditions.
    Rant over, Thanks for reading.
    Great post very good points and I can say I explained that same point of bridges to my sons girlfriend just last Friday. And also the whole point of hand signals.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    Actually the bridges get mogulled up by them who brake as they approach and gather up the snow.
    BS
    Last edited by sweeperguy; 01-22-2020 at 12:20 AM.

  37. #37
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    Never ending issue with idiots riding off the trail around here. Our club has it going on in a few places. One place we've been informed will need to be rerouted next year. I don't blame them, it's really getting sickening having to deal with this every year.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    Actually the bridges get mogulled up by them who brake as they approach and gather up the snow.
    Yeah, and most people ride down the center of them too.

    Bear

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    Actually the bridges get mogulled up by them who brake as they approach and gather up the snow.
    And nail it after they clear it

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    Quote Originally Posted by euphoric1 View Post
    And nail it after they clear it

    hmm what's happening in the middle of the bridge then...? because a bridge will typically be mogulled up from one end to the other. I'd imagine both reasons are true.... it's just that recently I was following a couple cautious riders and they both locked them up when they got to the bridges even though they were only going 30 to begin with....LOL

    I rarely use brakes....a trick learned on the 4 strokes and now also on the 800 2 smoker.
    Last edited by snobuilder; 01-22-2020 at 02:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    hmm what's happening in the middle of the bridge then...? because a bridge will typically be mogulled up from one end to the other. I'd imagine both reasons are true.... it's just that recently I was following a couple cautious riders and they both locked them up when they got to the bridges even though they were only going 30 to begin with....LOL
    Moguls are contagious. Once a few are started, the suspensions these days compress and then rebound. That action, along with power to the track causes the sleds to dig their own. So it is a combination of both stated above, but the nailing after just tosses loose snow onto the crossing, which gets bumped up much quicker than a groomed/packed trail. We are our own worst enemy when it comes to moguls on the trails!

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    Moguls are contagious. Once a few are started, the suspensions these days compress and then rebound. That action, along with power to the track causes the sleds to dig their own. So it is a combination of both stated above, but the nailing after just tosses loose snow onto the crossing, which gets bumped up much quicker than a groomed/packed trail. We are our own worst enemy when it comes to moguls on the trails!
    Its funny you say "these days" - My dad, being Mr. Curious that he was on how stuff works, sat on the side of the trail once and watched sled after sled after sled go by on a busy day in the woods, and how each sled would flip just a little more on the top of the mogul each time. He was trying to determine if it was bogie wheel or slide suspensions that were causing the issue.

    This was in 1975 - not much has changed in how moguls are developed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr440 View Post
    Its funny you say "these days" - My dad, being Mr. Curious that he was on how stuff works, sat on the side of the trail once and watched sled after sled after sled go by on a busy day in the woods, and how each sled would flip just a little more on the top of the mogul each time. He was trying to determine if it was bogie wheel or slide suspensions that were causing the issue.

    This was in 1975 - not much has changed in how moguls are developed.
    Great story! That is EXACTLY how I came to my conclusions. Sat on the side of the trail just north of Mohawk. Groomer went by and in 40 minutes, 1-2 foot moguls! I guess the only difference between now and 1975 is the speed at which they grow, due to greater HP, much larger lugs on tracks and increased travel in the suspension.

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    Great story! That is EXACTLY how I came to my conclusions. Sat on the side of the trail just north of Mohawk. Groomer went by and in 40 minutes, 1-2 foot moguls! I guess the only difference between now and 1975 is the speed at which they grow, due to greater HP, much larger lugs on tracks and increased travel in the suspension.
    Completely agree!

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr440 View Post
    Its funny you say "these days" - My dad, being Mr. Curious that he was on how stuff works, sat on the side of the trail once and watched sled after sled after sled go by on a busy day in the woods, and how each sled would flip just a little more on the top of the mogul each time. He was trying to determine if it was bogie wheel or slide suspensions that were causing the issue.

    This was in 1975 - not much has changed in how moguls are developed.
    Does anyone remember back in like 1997 there was an inventor who was selling a contraption (to me, it looked like barbed-wire wound in circles) you were supposed to attach to the rear of your sled and the snow would flow through it and eliminate moguls?

    Bear

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    Maybe a harrow or the springs from a box spring mattress.


    Quote Originally Posted by 1fujifilm View Post
    Does anyone remember back in like 1997 there was an inventor who was selling a contraption (to me, it looked like barbed-wire wound in circles) you were supposed to attach to the rear of your sled and the snow would flow through it and eliminate moguls?

    Bear

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fujifilm View Post
    Does anyone remember back in like 1997 there was an inventor who was selling a contraption (to me, it looked like barbed-wire wound in circles) you were supposed to attach to the rear of your sled and the snow would flow through it and eliminate moguls?

    Bear
    Yeah I remember that, but I can't remember what it was called either. I often wondered what that thing would be at 50+ MPH? Get out of control and wrapped up with a oncoming sled? Whoa! I also remember motel trails being somewhat groomed with bed springs stacked up.
    Last edited by old abe; 01-22-2020 at 06:48 PM.

  48. #48
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    Up here they used to groom mostly during the night so that the snow had a chance to setup, but now seems to be mostly daytime grooming......

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    Last edited by snobuilder; 01-23-2020 at 08:42 PM.

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by UP RIDER View Post
    Up here they used to groom mostly during the night so that the snow had a chance to setup, but now seems to be mostly daytime grooming......
    I did notice that too while going up to Copper Harbor last week. Maybe they can't get people to groom at night? John may know. We passed a groomer north of Calumet going in the opposite direction we were at about 9:00 a.m. The trail was compromised after the first sled went over it and within 10 minutes and about 15 sleds, you couldn't even tell the trail had been groomed. Grooming at that time of the day is mostly a complete waste of time and money. I don't allow my groomers to go out before 4:00 in the afternoon (there can be exceptions, but very few), and after they make their second pass back to the shed, most, if not all sleds are done riding for the night and the trail sets up hard and they hold up so much longer. I never saw a single groomer out during the day in the Lake Gogebic area and their trails were hard and flat for most of the day. It makes all the difference.

  51. #51
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    Just saw a post that Winneconne, WI closed their trails permanently this year because of idiots riding on them when they weren't open.

  52. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddogg View Post
    Just saw a post that Winneconne, WI closed their trails permanently this year because of idiots riding on them when they weren't open.
    Sad.
    I live in Green Bay and if they are not open by 2/2/20 history says they won't open at all this season.

    Bear

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddogg View Post
    Just saw a post that Winneconne, WI closed their trails permanently this year because of idiots riding on them when they weren't open.
    only takes a few to ruin it for many, the ride when you want where you want mentality.

  54. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by euphoric1 View Post
    only takes a few to ruin it for many, the ride when you want where you want mentality.
    One nice thing about MN - if there's snow, have at it, Dec 1 to April 1. Actually rode my area on Dec 1st and 2nd this year, there was barely enough snow, but mostly to make sure all trail signage was up to snuff before someone ran off trail and complained.

    Quite honestly, the (mostly) kids who go out early do a great job of knocking down the chisel plow fields!

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by UP RIDER View Post
    Up here they used to groom mostly during the night so that the snow had a chance to setup, but now seems to be mostly daytime grooming......
    I watch the groomer go by my house every night that I'm home on trail 17.

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspease View Post
    I did notice that too while going up to Copper Harbor last week. Maybe they can't get people to groom at night? John may know. We passed a groomer north of Calumet going in the opposite direction we were at about 9:00 a.m. The trail was compromised after the first sled went over it and within 10 minutes and about 15 sleds, you couldn't even tell the trail had been groomed. Grooming at that time of the day is mostly a complete waste of time and money. I don't allow my groomers to go out before 4:00 in the afternoon (there can be exceptions, but very few), and after they make their second pass back to the shed, most, if not all sleds are done riding for the night and the trail sets up hard and they hold up so much longer. I never saw a single groomer out during the day in the Lake Gogebic area and their trails were hard and flat for most of the day. It makes all the difference.
    Agree X2!

  57. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspease View Post
    I did notice that too while going up to Copper Harbor last week. Maybe they can't get people to groom at night? John may know. We passed a groomer north of Calumet going in the opposite direction we were at about 9:00 a.m. The trail was compromised after the first sled went over it and within 10 minutes and about 15 sleds, you couldn't even tell the trail had been groomed. Grooming at that time of the day is mostly a complete waste of time and money. I don't allow my groomers to go out before 4:00 in the afternoon (there can be exceptions, but very few), and after they make their second pass back to the shed, most, if not all sleds are done riding for the night and the trail sets up hard and they hold up so much longer. I never saw a single groomer out during the day in the Lake Gogebic area and their trails were hard and flat for most of the day. It makes all the difference.
    Gogebic had best trails today.... never seen groomer but trails were tight...autobahn was also good to go into SC...

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspease View Post
    I did notice that too while going up to Copper Harbor last week. Maybe they can't get people to groom at night? John may know. We passed a groomer north of Calumet going in the opposite direction we were at about 9:00 a.m. The trail was compromised after the first sled went over it and within 10 minutes and about 15 sleds, you couldn't even tell the trail had been groomed. Grooming at that time of the day is mostly a complete waste of time and money. I don't allow my groomers to go out before 4:00 in the afternoon (there can be exceptions, but very few), and after they make their second pass back to the shed, most, if not all sleds are done riding for the night and the trail sets up hard and they hold up so much longer. I never saw a single groomer out during the day in the Lake Gogebic area and their trails were hard and flat for most of the day. It makes all the difference.
    Most of our busy trails get a double groom every 24 hours. I agree that 9 am is not a good time at all. Must have been a reason. I know we lent one of our groomers to the club Running Bear is with, so that might have had something to do with a schedule anomaly. Or, it was coming from the garage in Mohawk from getting it's weekly maintenance done and was heading south to it's regular grounds. We do go at night and that is the priority. Daytime grooming is suppose to start in the late afternoon. I think what you saw was an anomaly, for some reason. I will be checking with our groomer boss for sure though.

    -John

    PS- For those that see a groomer heading south from Mohawk this Saturday, it is heading to our trailside bonfire at the Trailside Lodge in Calumet. In addition to the bonfire, we will have free hot dogs/brats, hot and cold drinks and other goodies. Folks will be able to climb up into the PistenBully groomer to get a feel for what it is like to groom our trails. Hope to see and meet lots of you!

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by maddogg View Post
    Just saw a post that Winneconne, WI closed their trails permanently this year because of idiots riding on them when they weren't open.
    From the Wolf Runners Snowmobile Club;
    ALL SNOWMOBILE TRAILS AND ROUTES POSTED AND MAINTAINED BY THE WOLFRUNNERS WITHIN THE VILLAGE OF WINNECONNE WILL BE CLOSED PERMANENTLY FOR THE REMAINING 2020 SEASON.

    After this last snowfall the trails never opened and yet a handful of snowmobilers thought they could ride anywhere they please in Marble Park. Going right around snow Fence, No snowmobiling signs posted in the park, and crossing paved walkways. It is unfair to the snowmobile club members and police to babysit the situation after every snowfall therefore we've decided to make a bold statement.

    The Winneconne Police will allow snowmobilers in currently 1 spot.
    1. For you to TRAILER your snowmobiles to Lake Winneconne Park to access the lake.

    Please share and spread the word we'll hopefully have better luck next season!

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    Most of our busy trails get a double groom every 24 hours. I agree that 9 am is not a good time at all. Must have been a reason. I know we lent one of our groomers to the club Running Bear is with, so that might have had something to do with a schedule anomaly. Or, it was coming from the garage in Mohawk from getting it's weekly maintenance done and was heading south to it's regular grounds. We do go at night and that is the priority. Daytime grooming is suppose to start in the late afternoon. I think what you saw was an anomaly, for some reason. I will be checking with our groomer boss for sure though.

    -John

    PS- For those that see a groomer heading south from Mohawk this Saturday, it is heading to our trailside bonfire at the Trailside Lodge in Calumet. In addition to the bonfire, we will have free hot dogs/brats, hot and cold drinks and other goodies. Folks will be able to climb up into the PistenBully groomer to get a feel for what it is like to groom our trails. Hope to see and meet lots of you!
    I was in the McGanns yard yesterday morning at 9:00 am and the Groomer went by heading north so I commented to one of the Yard guys about daytime Grooming and he said they go by every day........

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by UP RIDER View Post
    I was in the McGanns yard yesterday morning at 9:00 am and the Groomer went by heading north so I commented to one of the Yard guys about daytime Grooming and he said they go by every day........
    Thanks for the info and I welcome anyone to chime in with what they have experienced, including the shape of our trails.

    I will be getting the low down on this for sure. As mentioned, we do hit the heavily traveled trails at least twice in a 2 hour period and the trail from Hancock to Calumet is one of the heaviest traveled because of the closure of the lower trail from $ Bay to Lake Linden. Heading north at 9 am would mean he was done and heading back. Still need to make sure we are not regularly grooming in the morning. Of course with the weather we have right now, day is about as good as night, as temps are holding around 32 all day and night.

    -John

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    Most of our busy trails get a double groom every 24 hours. I agree that 9 am is not a good time at all. Must have been a reason. I know we lent one of our groomers to the club Running Bear is with, so that might have had something to do with a schedule anomaly. Or, it was coming from the garage in Mohawk from getting it's weekly maintenance done and was heading south to it's regular grounds. We do go at night and that is the priority. Daytime grooming is suppose to start in the late afternoon. I think what you saw was an anomaly, for some reason. I will be checking with our groomer boss for sure though.

    -John

    PS- For those that see a groomer heading south from Mohawk this Saturday, it is heading to our trailside bonfire at the Trailside Lodge in Calumet. In addition to the bonfire, we will have free hot dogs/brats, hot and cold drinks and other goodies. Folks will be able to climb up into the PistenBully groomer to get a feel for what it is like to groom our trails. Hope to see and meet lots of you!
    Thanks for the reply John. FYI, we were heading south from Copper Harbor and the groomer was heading north. We stopped for breakfast at Slim's next to the White House Motel and saw the groomer heading north shortly after that, so it may have been closer to 10 a.m., not exactly sure. I know your club is on GroomerTracker, do you monitor that? I find it to be a great tool both for riding and finding the best trails and watching when my groomers are out.

  63. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by united View Post
    Maybe a harrow or the springs from a box spring mattress.
    I remember them days of the Dreamland trails groomer drag when it was a old box spring dragged behind the ole Snowmachine...

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by mspease View Post
    Thanks for the reply John. FYI, we were heading south from Copper Harbor and the groomer was heading north. We stopped for breakfast at Slim's next to the White House Motel and saw the groomer heading north shortly after that, so it may have been closer to 10 a.m., not exactly sure. I know your club is on GroomerTracker, do you monitor that? I find it to be a great tool both for riding and finding the best trails and watching when my groomers are out.
    Thanks M! I did have groomertracker on my previous phone. It did not make the backup, but I need to put it on the new one. Been told we are doing day and night grooming on the main arteries. So that app will be helpful in keeping an eye on things and keeping folks honest!

    The timing of our grooming is really a sensitive issue with me as many on our board have worked very hard to get things done the best way and if we are slipping back to the old and bad habits...butts are going to get kicked!

    How were the trails for you?

    -John

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamadooed View Post
    I remember them days of the Dreamland trails groomer drag when it was a old box spring dragged behind the ole Snowmachine...
    At least they groomed it.
    Granted, I have only attempted to ride this trail 3 times (last season 2018/2019), I always found it mega-mounded with whoop-de-doos and unrideable for me.
    Sounds cool but have never ridden it.

    Bear

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    Thanks M! I did have groomertracker on my previous phone. It did not make the backup, but I need to put it on the new one. Been told we are doing day and night grooming on the main arteries. So that app will be helpful in keeping an eye on things and keeping folks honest!

    The timing of our grooming is really a sensitive issue with me as many on our board have worked very hard to get things done the best way and if we are slipping back to the old and bad habits...butts are going to get kicked!

    How were the trails for you?

    -John
    For the most part John, they were very good, especially the loops. The main artery trail was a bit choppy but that's to be expected as it sees most of the traffic and if they do groom during the day, the moguls come right back. On our way home Wednesday morning the Brockway Mountain trail hadn't been groomed but if you stayed way to the right, it wasn't too bad. I think most people that aren't staying overnight, go up to CH on Brockway Mountain and then back home on the more southern trails, leaving the right side of the BM trail pretty good the next day. Everything else was very good.

    As a groomer director, I don't want to be too critical as I know all that goes into trying to keep trails in top shape, especially with volunteer groomers like I have. Keep up the good work! It seems this subject is important to you and we appreciate that!

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  68. #68
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    Yes it will!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Attak man View Post
    HA!! There is a farmer on a section of trail that I maintain that does that exact thing along the side of his trail - and it works

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attak man View Post
    Cow feces..

    Bear

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  72. #72
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    That’s awfull ****ty of him to do that

    - - - Updated - - -

    Stinky too

  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attak man View Post
    Love it

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary_in_neenah View Post
    perfect!

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    Beautiful and so true, thank you to our landowners!

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attak man View Post
    I suggested that to one. He will be cleaning out his pack manure tomorrow!😈

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by gary_in_neenah View Post
    Where did you see that Gary?

  77. #77
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    Last edited by gary_in_neenah; 01-26-2020 at 11:24 AM. Reason: found the link

  78. #78
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    In reply to 1fujifilm. It was called the trail rake. A couple of guy's came to a regional club meeting one night promoting it. One of the region members said why should I bolt one of those contraptions on the back of my snowmobile just so the trails will be tore up after two or three sleds come up behind me. I wonder if they ever sold any.

  79. #79
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    I saw that invention and appreciated the thought and effort he put into it.
    A true unselfish snowmobiler with a brain
    In fantasy future snowmobiling perhaps instead of a snow flap we'll have a trail corrective device...

    Lol
    Last edited by snobuilder; 01-26-2020 at 07:10 PM.

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimAndros View Post
    You can't fix stupid!
    I rode Eagle River, WI last week and was surprised to see a (new to me) Trail 3 re-route off the railroad grade south of town about 6-10 miles.
    I thought nothing of it except (we all know the reasons) and rode literally a mile south from there and saw a 8"x12" "road quality reflective sign" telling riders to stay off a mound that had a singular snowmo track right over the top of it.


    Bear

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