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  1. #1
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    Default I have a question to both naysayers and sayers

    I have a question, everyone who has read my posts on this covid-19 action knows my stance... a serious overreaction, and I still stand by that opinion. I have a question for both those that share the same opinion as I have and those that don't. I will start with a statement before I ask the question.

    The WHO (world health organization) estimates that 250,000 - 500,000 people die "EACH" year from the influenza virus we encounter year after year, and keep in mind this is something we have vaccines and treatments in place for, and it affects primarily the same age group as the covid-19 is especially fatal to, yet the world goes on, the economy for the most part goes unaffected by it.

    Somewhere between 20,000 - 60,000 people die in our own country from the influenza virus each year with same treatments, from same age group primarily and the world goes on as stated in first listed above.

    So far less than 9000 people have died world wide from covid-19 including places and countries that have seen the virus at such a unprecedented extreme scale and the world economy is on one of its worst downfalls

    So far a little more than 100 people have died in our country, most of which occurred under one roof in the state of Washington, and our economy once strong has TANKED and the worse is yet to come according to officials, I think we are headed to an economic downfall that we as individuals and as a country are not prepared for and am afraid how far it will go.

    We are whether you like it or not desocializing society which will have its own ramifications that we yet know as to what extent and to what extreme it will go.

    Looking at what I have stated above I want those that think this is an overreaction and those that think we are doing the right thing to think about the question I am about to ask and to rsespond without bashing or criticizing one anothers opinion. I also want to state that as an society death should never become accepted or ignored. Here is my question.


    Lets say that in the end 50,000 people die world wide or even 100,000 and lets say fatalities fall way short on our soil of what the influenza virus kills each and every year. How do react from here on out? as the flu virus comes back each year and on average kills 200,000 people world wide, what do we do? do we act as we are? if we don't are we putting a closed eye at the inevidable ? I still think this is an overreaction and am curious for those that think the same or don't think how we should approach flu season next year.
    Last edited by euphoric1; 03-18-2020 at 08:37 AM.

  2. #2
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    Default

    I believe it is a huge over reaction also. What worries me the most is the precedent that has now been set. Now, anytime there is a virus, this is what will happen. You will be told where you can and cannot go, whether you will be able to work or not work. The fear mongering by the media is out of control. I have two life long friends who are on the front lines, both nurses, they also say the media has blown this out of proportion. My work is not shut down, but if the government, state or federal, enacts a state wide quarantine, well, I will be beyond pissed.
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

  3. #3
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    Dec 2009
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    NW IL
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    As Tae Adams from the Packers put it, "wash your hands, wash your butt". If people would stay home when the feel sick, practice better hygiene and not spread ANY virus or illness they may have, the epidemic would not be near as severe. Todays society goes to work sick all the time, some because they simply can't afford not to go to work. I do agree with you & think this is a little bit of overreaction by society. This strand of 'flu' virus, does appear to spread faster than others, but maybe it is just a case of more people travelling to a lot of other destinations that even 5-10 years ago was unheard of.

  4. #4
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    Dec 2009
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    Neenah, Wisconsin is about 40 miles south of Green Bay's Lambeau Field.
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    Excellent post! I don't have an answer, too many unknowns. So much of the "panic" is cause and effect. They closed down the colleges and now the beaches in Florida are packed. Hospitals in Green Bay are at 97% capacity and paramedics are told to only transport the critical. Early on some stores ran low on Bath Tissue and then the hoarding began. I'm being perfectly honest here (and opinionated) I'm more concerned with the financial consequences then the health concerns. Each day this continues, the recovery is going to take longer and become more costly. We're probably in a Recession right now and don't even know it.
    Lastly, I feel great now but a month ago I was sick as a dog. The wife thinks I had the virus back in February, typical flu with chills, sweats, and a wicked cough that sounded like a dog barking. I felt miserable, was down for three weeks, but I fought through it like I always do and today I'm doing fine. "So, I got that going for me, which is nice."

    I was in a Lowes yesterday and talking with the checkout lady. Last weekend was crazy for crowds, everyone stocking up on "home projects" like paint and tile. Sounds like they're staying home and staying busy for the time being. That's what I'll be doing, catching up on my To Do List. Besides, the dog likes having me home all day, more treats and more exercise. Stay healthy, everyone!

  5. #5
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    NE Pa
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    Default

    I think everyone today over reacts to almost anything, it seems everyone needs some sort of shock value to get attention they MUST HAVE!
    FAME Is something far too many IMO place a priority on and they don't seem to care why or what gets them Fame!

    Next is, frivolous law suits, GOD there is no shortage of them, and I think many folks, and this includes the Government, is paranoid about NOT doing something more than, do logical things!
    the fear of being BASHED On TV< NEW and the world wide web alone seems to force so many into TRYING to do more, .say more, and fake feelings and emotions and blow up small things into huge things!
    again, part to show there TRYING< part to cover there butt's and part to again, get attention/fame!

    NOW< as of this current issue at hand, YES I think most are over reacting BIG time, but at the same time, I think the fear that is leading this wave, is the fact there is NO cure, or prevention of it from spreading !

    Yes the above flue's and illness's the OP used as examples, THEY DO have cures and treatments in place
    so even when they break out , there is a treatment to cure them!

    where as this thing, if it spreads and spreads with NO stopping it or cure, can possibly have some major effects , and that is where the FEAR and over reaction is coming from

    DO< you wait till things get REALLY bad before you REACT< or start NOW< before it gets worse?


    we as humans, grow real easy to over look things till they happen to US or one's we love!

    Starvation kills 25000+ people a yr in the USA< according to stat's I have seen, and few seem worried about that
    add in the tens of thousands that die in vehicle crashes every yr in the USA, and again, so few think twice about getting in a vehicle!
    and the main reason is, again, NO major Hype about it on the new's to get everyone excited about it!

    SO< over reacting, to this, YES many are, but, at what point SHOULD we really worry??

    the over reacting, if nothing else, should at least be forcing a cure to happen sooner, so, at least maybe that's a PLUS??

  6. #6
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    Default

    I really cannot see now one can make a full assessment. Like Gary said, too many unknowns. One of the reasons the extra precautions are being made is that the medical community does not and admits that they do not know a lot of about this virus.

    The mortality rate for the seasonal flu varies between around .01 to .02 percent in the US. So far this virus is at 1.5-2 percent. That is 100 times greater. So say that half the people in this country get it. Roughly 1 out of every 100 persons you know will die from it. Sound good?

    I guess I sit on the other side of most on this site, as I am one that has a compromised immune system due to childhood cancer as well as risk due to all of my heart issues. I am not panicked, or doing anything irrational. We did buy some extra groceries yesterday and I am going to pick up a few more things today and then we will be set for the next 2-3 weeks easy. Right now I feel safe going about in public and being diligent in my hygiene practices. I am going to start limiting my exposure to the general public after today and plan to self-quarantine myself to Jacobsville once spring breakers come back, as they are sure to bring it back to the Keweenaw. Had a regularly scheduled follow up with my Dr yesterday and said my plan sound very good. He said my risk of complications from it is higher and I really need to be careful.

    I must say that I am a little taken back by the selfishness of some, going about their day and not heeding anything that is asked of them. They probably feel THEY will get by just fine and most likely will. Unfortunately, their actions increases the risk that I and others will get it and could be in real trouble. All for what? A play date? Is everyone really so amped up that they cannot chill out for 2-3 weeks? And money...so you have a drop in income for a bit. Try owning your own business, happens all the time. If you run your business right, you will survive just fine. If you just collect a paycheck and cannot afford to be without income for a few weeks. God help you. You are living way beyond you means and it was going to catch up with you sooner or later.

    I think back to "The Greatest Generation". The sacrifices these folks made is unbelievable. Many went without a meal that contained their typical elements for years. Folks grew "Victory Gardens" so that the troops could get the food they would have otherwise eaten. It was not about themselves, it was about survival for all. In my opinion, we are at the opposite end of the spectrum these days. Me, Me, Me. That is what will take this country down. Not a virus or a recession.

    -John

  7. #7
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    Default

    I'm in the over reaction camp, but I can understand some of it.

    What I can't understand is the panic being put in place and how people are clearing store shelves. I go to the grocery store everyday and talk with the people there and they have seen the decline in humanity first hand. What the **** are you going to do with 24 rolls of TP, much less 6 bags of 24 rolls at a time!!!

    I said to a guy checking out with among a cart full of things, two 5lb bags of sugar the other day: "That must be quite the birthday cake you are making!" He snickered at me and walked out. Really???

    They are telling us not to hang out or go to crowded spaces, yet people are crowding into stores and pushing each other through the isles to get a couple bags of sugar??

    This kinda says it all:
    IMG_3782.JPG

  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    I really cannot see now one can make a full assessment. Like Gary said, too many unknowns. One of the reasons the extra precautions are being made is that the medical community does not and admits that they do not know a lot of about this virus.

    The mortality rate for the seasonal flu varies between around .01 to .02 percent in the US. So far this virus is at 1.5-2 percent. That is 100 times greater. So say that half the people in this country get it. Roughly 1 out of every 100 persons you know will die from it. Sound good?

    I guess I sit on the other side of most on this site, as I am one that has a compromised immune system due to childhood cancer as well as risk due to all of my heart issues. I am not panicked, or doing anything irrational. We did buy some extra groceries yesterday and I am going to pick up a few more things today and then we will be set for the next 2-3 weeks easy. Right now I feel safe going about in public and being diligent in my hygiene practices. I am going to start limiting my exposure to the general public after today and plan to self-quarantine myself to Jacobsville once spring breakers come back, as they are sure to bring it back to the Keweenaw. Had a regularly scheduled follow up with my Dr yesterday and said my plan sound very good. He said my risk of complications from it is higher and I really need to be careful.

    I must say that I am a little taken back by the selfishness of some, going about their day and not heeding anything that is asked of them. They probably feel THEY will get by just fine and most likely will. Unfortunately, their actions increases the risk that I and others will get it and could be in real trouble. All for what? A play date? Is everyone really so amped up that they cannot chill out for 2-3 weeks? And money...so you have a drop in income for a bit. Try owning your own business, happens all the time. If you run your business right, you will survive just fine. If you just collect a paycheck and cannot afford to be without income for a few weeks. God help you. You are living way beyond you means and it was going to catch up with you sooner or later.

    I think back to "The Greatest Generation". The sacrifices these folks made is unbelievable. Many went without a meal that contained their typical elements for years. Folks grew "Victory Gardens" so that the troops could get the food they would have otherwise eaten. It was not about themselves, it was about survival for all. In my opinion, we are at the opposite end of the spectrum these days. Me, Me, Me. That is what will take this country down. Not a virus or a recession.

    -John
    I agree with this statement wholeheartedly! Have any of the naysayers taken a look at what happened and is happening in Italy? This is what the US is trying to prevent.

  9. #9
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    Dec 2009
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    Default

    I think this is a huge over reaction based on the numbers that just don't add up. As stated, will this become the new norm every year for the flu virus and plunge us into hysteria and panic constantly?

    Is this what socialism is? I think its fairly close. In short, small and large business cannot survive being told to shut down. I truly believe that in a week or so, the bars and restaurant owners will face the fact that unless they take things into their own hands and re-open to start making a living that they have worked so hard to create it will all be lost. There comes a time when people will stand up and say enough is enough and I am one of them.

    In speaking with my daughter who is 29, I get the impression that their generation is the most worried about this as it is their first major crisis and they don't know how to handle it. She is worried that their business may close and that they might lose their house. I tried to tell her that this is highly unlikely but I could tell in her voice that she was not convinced. For me, I am almost at retirement age and have made my living and have been very fortunate but what about all these young people who up until 3 weeks ago were really enjoying the fruits of a string economy and getting ahead in life?

    Its a sad situation and I think that by April first if it has not subsided people will make it subside and we will get on with our lives like we always do.

    Don't even get me started about the media, someone should pull the plug and we should go dark, we would all be better off not listening to them, I have started this already and refuse to watch the news. It reminds me of 9/11 when all it was 24/7 blasted in your face until you just got sick of it and had to turn the TV off.

    God Bless America and all of our great people here that have common sense, By the way, Common Sense is free!

  10. #10
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    Default

    Well said, John.

  11. #11
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    I agree John. Wisconsin shut bars and restaurants down yesterday at 5. I could not believe the people crying on facebook about missing a drinking holiday. People are selfish.

  12. #12
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    Agreed major overreaction. I believe there’s more going on though than what they want us to believe. Translate Covid to Hebrew and translate that Hebrew translation back to English guess what it is? Kobe. What cemetery was Kobe buried in? Corona Del Mar. hmmmmmm... dozens of CEO’s have stepped down in the last couple months. Where did Bill Gates go?
    Last edited by indy_500; 03-18-2020 at 10:32 AM.

  13. #13

    Default

    hundreds of millions of actuaries are working on this now!

  14. #14
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by indy_500 View Post
    Where did Bill Gates go?
    With our former president to Wuhan China!!

  15. #15
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    Dec 2009
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    St Germain, WI
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    Great post, John! Agree all the way around. The media and the fear factor are ridiculous. I am in a similar situation with some medical problems and an elder statesman so I have to be careful.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    I really cannot see now one can make a full assessment. Like Gary said, too many unknowns. One of the reasons the extra precautions are being made is that the medical community does not and admits that they do not know a lot of about this virus.

    The mortality rate for the seasonal flu varies between around .01 to .02 percent in the US. So far this virus is at 1.5-2 percent. That is 100 times greater. So say that half the people in this country get it. Roughly 1 out of every 100 persons you know will die from it. Sound good?

    I guess I sit on the other side of most on this site, as I am one that has a compromised immune system due to childhood cancer as well as risk due to all of my heart issues. I am not panicked, or doing anything irrational. We did buy some extra groceries yesterday and I am going to pick up a few more things today and then we will be set for the next 2-3 weeks easy. Right now I feel safe going about in public and being diligent in my hygiene practices. I am going to start limiting my exposure to the general public after today and plan to self-quarantine myself to Jacobsville once spring breakers come back, as they are sure to bring it back to the Keweenaw. Had a regularly scheduled follow up with my Dr yesterday and said my plan sound very good. He said my risk of complications from it is higher and I really need to be careful.

    I must say that I am a little taken back by the selfishness of some, going about their day and not heeding anything that is asked of them. They probably feel THEY will get by just fine and most likely will. Unfortunately, their actions increases the risk that I and others will get it and could be in real trouble. All for what? A play date? Is everyone really so amped up that they cannot chill out for 2-3 weeks? And money...so you have a drop in income for a bit. Try owning your own business, happens all the time. If you run your business right, you will survive just fine. If you just collect a paycheck and cannot afford to be without income for a few weeks. God help you. You are living way beyond you means and it was going to catch up with you sooner or later.

    I think back to "The Greatest Generation". The sacrifices these folks made is unbelievable. Many went without a meal that contained their typical elements for years. Folks grew "Victory Gardens" so that the troops could get the food they would have otherwise eaten. It was not about themselves, it was about survival for all. In my opinion, we are at the opposite end of the spectrum these days. Me, Me, Me. That is what will take this country down. Not a virus or a recession.

    -John
    Well stated John, I agree!

  17. #17
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    Jan 2010
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    Live in St. Germain/ work McHenry il
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    I see both sides. Most of the so called experts are saying that is not going to be over in a couple of weeks it could go on for a year or longer. I'm sorry but I can't stay home and get paid. I am a tradesman no work no pay. I don't know anyone who can go a year without working. This 2 weeks of shutting everything down is going to slow it down but as soon as they ease up the restrictions we will see an increase in cases,then they will have to shut everything down again. So where does it end? There are no easy answer, and I am not saying I have the answers. If everybody would use more common sense wash there hands,stay home when they are sick most of this could be avoided. I can't tell you how many times I have seen people use the restroom and just walk out without washing there hands, disgusting.

  18. #18
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    John hit it on the head per usual. It's not about the total numbers but the percentages, .01% vs 1-2%. The 2000 countdown was a huge deal, a bunch of IT folks prepped for it and it never happened due to the "over reaction." That's ok and people need to remember that. How many bullets do you take when you go hunting? You only need 1 but I bet the clip/mag is full every time. Better to be over prepared than under prepared.

    I also have a pre-existing condition that if I catch this I will probably end up in the hospital with pneumonia. The fire chief in GB just said hospitals are at 95% capacity already and we don't have any confirmed cases yet in Brown County, what am I to do if I can't breathe? Hope and praying will only work after death.

    I agree with John also about the me me me that is popping up all over, especially on this forum. As probably one of the few millenials on this forum (maybe only?), I can say I am shocked at the response from the elders of this group. There is a ton of what about me, I saw a member say where am I going to get my beer if so and so bar is closed. So what. That bar won't have any income for weeks if not months. Buy the beer and sit in the parking lot, boo hoo.

    So while you guys can say the media is over-reacting and the "so called" professionals are making it up, us with families of young and old people, healthy looking people who have diseases not clear to the naked eye, we will be working to stay away from crowds, avoid mingling with elderly and working on getting through this.

    This got way longer than I wanted and I'm sorry for the long read. The last week was rough on a lot of people and really brought out some interesting sides to everybody and I thought I should also get to say my piece.

  19. #19
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    It is a coronavirus. It is not Ebola. Our government does not know the difference between the two. The media does not know the difference between the two. And the dumbed down general public does not know the difference between the two. If I were John with underlying health issues I would be laying low like he is. But is a less than 1% fatality rate worth destroying the economy and sending the masses in to a full blown panic? Bring it on and get it over with. If I die from it well then I die from it. When it is all said and done I have had a pretty good run. One day I caught a big fish and I got through my entire life without ever owning a minivan.

  20. #20
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    John, was up in Lake Geneva yesterday with my Daughter and Son. We walked the dog around by the lake by the park off of 50. People walking around, not alot ,but they are out there. I live in the top of northern IL. I think it is funny that Governor J.B. Pritzker shut down everything but the marijuana shops I'm sure he invested in. I hope and pray we get through all this. By the way my oldest Son and family live in Palatine,IL. Their dog Marlin is a twin for Beau. He is absolutely amazing. Every now and than I get him when they go out of town. I have had goldens in the past ,but he is just has lovable and does not shed to bad. Anyway everyone be safe. John your site is amazing, I have been coming to it for over 20yrs.

  21. #21
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    This issue is an unprecedented event. Something that has never happened before should cause a high level of public concern. Especially for the elderly population not to mention those that are immune compromised which is a category that I too fit into. None of us have traveled the road of a World-wide Pandemic before & hopefully, we never will again. Yes, we have been irritated with the media, & they will continue to irritate us, we just need to filter the rhetoric in order to make common sense of it all. Please be patient with this issue, many lives depend on it, including yours. -Mezz

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezz View Post
    This issue is an unprecedented event. Something that has never happened before should cause a high level of public concern. Especially for the elderly population not to mention those that are immune compromised which is a category that I too fit into. None of us have traveled the road of a World-wide Pandemic before & hopefully, we never will again. Yes, we have been irritated with the media, & they will continue to irritate us, we just need to filter the rhetoric in order to make common sense of it all. Please be patient with this issue, many lives depend on it, including yours. -Mezz
    Spot on, excellent!

  23. #23
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    i believe huge over reaction
    that being said Im all for being cautious, I understand closing the schools being closed.
    I think this is going to be used to increase government control that they wont give up easily and how are we going to pay for all the votes they are already beginning to promise to buy?
    Italy has an old population cramed into the area the size of arizona
    We have 5 times the population and 32 times the land, (sure Alaska would reduce that) but still they keep comparing this us to italy in numbers....

  24. #24
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    Taken off of Facebook from someone who lives in Spain...

    Day 3 of quarantine (it honestly seems like day 89).....


    Thank you all for reaching out and checking on us with your phone calls and text messages. As most of you know, the entire country of Spain is in lockdown status. I was absolutely shocked at how quickly our busy little beach town turned into a ghost town in just a matter of hours. The original quarantine time frame was 15 days, but since Spain's Covid-19 cases are rapidly on the rise, the lockdown may be actually anywhere from 4 weeks to 4 months. As of today, there were 11,178 reported cases, which is 2,000 more than yesterday.


    Many of you have asked what exactly does this mean for our family. Dean can only go to work if it is mission essential to the US Navy. Otherwise, he teleworks from home. He carries a letter from the Navy that may or may not get him out of a ticket when traveling for work. I can only leave for groceries or for the pharmacy. We must always travel alone and we must have a receipt in case we get pulled over by the National Police. (If anyone ignores the quarantine rules, then they are faced with hefty fines and/or jail time).


    It's scarier that I would like to admit and all so surreal. We are doing alright and taking advantage of lots of family time, but honestly we miss our freedom. Our girls begin online school tomorrow and we are grateful to our teachers for putting in so much extra work. We are also fortunate to have a yard, so that we can get at least go outside each day. Most Spaniards do not have this luxury and live in apartments with their entire extended family.


    To all our friends in the states and throughout the entire world...THIS IS COMING. In just the US alone, cases rose 1,100 in the last 7 hours. Heed our warnings and learn from our mistakes. There is no more time. Last week we were in the "just wash your hands and social distance stage" and now we are in full lockdown mode" for an undetermined period of time. I never in a million years would have thought I would be quarantined in my own home. By the time we took it seriously, it was too late.
    Please listen to the health officials, cancel social gatherings and limit contact with others to slow the infection rate. Stay inside, keep your children home, and understand this virus has a 2 week incubation period. You could be spreading the germs to every single person that you come in contact with for 2 full weeks and not even know it. Your actions now will make a huge difference for the next few weeks/months to come. This is no longer about you. Be the good.


    Please thank every nurse, doctor, and teacher the next time you see them. They give more than we will ever know. <3


    Stay safe and stay healthy. Thank you again for checking in on us. Love and miss you all. xoxoxoxo

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezz View Post
    This issue is an unprecedented event. Something that has never happened before should cause a high level of public concern. Especially for the elderly population not to mention those that are immune compromised which is a category that I too fit into. None of us have traveled the road of a World-wide Pandemic before & hopefully, we never will again. Yes, we have been irritated with the media, & they will continue to irritate us, we just need to filter the rhetoric in order to make common sense of it all. Please be patient with this issue, many lives depend on it, including yours. -Mezz
    What? 2009, H1N1 was a global pandemic. It killed over 12,000 people in the USA, and nobody was panicking and hoarding toilet paper. This is absolutely NOT unprecedented. And the mortality rate is far lower than what the MSM is reporting, because most cases are mild, never diagnosed as COVID19 and are not counted. The mainstream media has intentionally sent the mindless sheep into a panic. I would like to explain their motives, but it would probably break the forum rules.

  26. #26
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  27. #27
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    More worried about the economic reaction than anything else. Everything is interconnected nowadays so even if the US is fine and others get the hardest hit, it will still negatively effect things here. Too many people live paycheck to paycheck and will get burned by it.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by SledTL View Post
    More worried about the economic reaction than anything else. Everything is interconnected nowadays so even if the US is fine and others get the hardest hit, it will still negatively effect things here. Too many people live paycheck to paycheck and will get burned by it.
    Somebody just wants to make Trump look bad and see the fall of our economy, some people don't want him back in office

  29. #29
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    I'm more worried about the financial situation than my own health as If i get it I should be able to beat it fortunately.
    Thing about it is this is just the beginning,,,, more people will get this, more people will get sick and die. In turn the stock market will keep taking a beating like we never seen. The more people get sick, the more closures of all walks of nature will take place. Its enviable every day theres more/new closures. Munchkin says not out of the realm to see 20% unemployment. During the great depression unemployment peaked at 23% and obviously we have alot more citizens than we had in 1933. So that 20% is even more than the depression considering the population.

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    HUGE overreaction, but if you want to shut things down, particularly schools, fine. A date has been set (4/6 for us). So rather than act harshly and now, less than one week later, say it is shut down for the remainder of the school year, is bogus. Why don't you get to 3/30 and re-evaluate. Baby steps, in my opinion, would be better for everyone and everything. But the government is taking giant leaps without all of the facts and media is playing right into it.

    There was a bar in Brookfield, WI that made the new (as I am sure there are many across the country) staying open regardless of the shut down ruling. I applaud those places. You have people who have never been there and only know about the place because of the news of them staying open posting irreleavant reviews on its FB page.

    Ridiculous to say the least and not one mention of the possibility of cancelling the DNC. Bogus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamageInc View Post
    What? 2009, H1N1 was a global pandemic. It killed over 12,000 people in the USA, and nobody was panicking and hoarding toilet paper. This is absolutely NOT unprecedented. And the mortality rate is far lower than what the MSM is reporting, because most cases are mild, never diagnosed as COVID19 and are not counted. The mainstream media has intentionally sent the mindless sheep into a panic. I would like to explain their motives, but it would probably break the forum rules.
    There were some big differences with H1N1. They had a vaccine and piles of it sitting in the SNS. Distribution was already in place too. We still lost 12,000 people?
    I agree that people are going into a panic and doing some strangely odd practices. I'm not sure how much I blame the media. We all have a choice.
    I'm not happy about the situation, but I'm afraid this is only the beginning. Acting smart is our best tool right now. It really is up to the public action to make this a non event. If they are going to hand out money to fuel the economy, give it to people that stay home awhile. This thing would be a non event dang fast if it quit spreading. It would also give the teams time to find the fix. Talk about a great way to get people working and spending again.

    BTW, if we want to relate this to historical perspective, go back in time for two weeks or even a month. Look where it has been, and where it has moved. Those are the kind of numbers we will see if we do nothing.
    Again, I'm not happy about the situation. But, it is up to us to stop this thing. We are all smart enough to know that watching media and buying toilet paper isn't the fix.

  32. #32
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    I'm tired of the flu argument as it makes no sense. People die from a variety of causes like car accidents, heart disease, cancer, and driving snowmobiles into trees. No matter the prevention or treatments available, some just won't make it and they die.

    As a society we can handle this, we have enough hospitals, doctors, equipment, and mortuaries. While it is sad that people die it is built in to our lives and our care system. It does not overwhelm us.

    What we are trying to prevent is a crisis, not a disease. There is no cure, there is no vaccine. Most get better, about 3% die. Our health care system cannot handle a crisis of this magnitude. These victims are on top of car accidents, heart attacks, and snowmobiles meets tree. But these happen over time on a statistically predictable pattern, this is a new way to die and it can't happen all at once or the health care system breaks.

    I'm wintering in San Diego, it's different than the Fox River Valley or Houghton. We have 500 cases, 11 have died, that's 2.2%. Kinda scary in a state with 40 million people.

    Out here, staying home is a good idea.

    As an edit, I think the hoarding is stupid and irresponsible. We're not gonna die of starvation, lights will come on and water will run out of the tap. We're just being prudent, we're both 67 and at risk. We still go out and walk around, we're not hermits, but we are staying put in Ocean Beach where we can get what we need.

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    A couple things to keep in mind with the mortality percentage, where it started the living conditions are more like camps, high percentage of contraction plus were they tested or just assumed to have had it? I'm not sure about all states but in Illinois the test is controlled by the state. They have final and only approval for a patient to receive a test. I know a prominent Chicago area hospital was refused approval for a test as recent as yesterday. They basically can tell its likely Wuhan 2019 (the real name) if the patient shows symptoms and tests negative for regular influenza. Once the test has wide spread availability, the positives will climb rapidly and the mortality rate will decline.

    This has been around around a few months. It's not like the movies where "Patient X" got on a plane after playing with monkeys (nothing against monkeys) in Asia and went straight to a Knicks game in NYC, infecting everyone along the way. It was discovered (or created) in late 2019 (the "19" in the name) and thousands traveled freely in the fall, thru the holidays right up to last couple weeks. A few weeks ago, it was all about the cruise ships, docked, floating at sea, quarantined, denied port. As far as I know, there are no ghost cruise ships floating around with no survivors? A cruise ship is about the worst place to be for a "pandemic" or any outbreak. Well known for rotovirus, norovirus and other outbreaks, Limited medical aid, limited food, community just about everything except sleeping. I think the cruise ships actually answer a few of the variables. The contagion can be dormant in a affected person for up to 14 days, I think many of the ships have surpassed that time frame since the first case and who knows how many passengers were infected prior to 1st cases being reported. If you research and follow up with these ships, it has not been full blown infection. They did quarantine, but that doesn't mean several were not infected prior to that. I personally thing the MSM blew it out of proportion and China saw an opportunity to jump in and push it to the limit we see today. It's so deep there is no turning back. I am in the overreaction group, but the fear has been planted and the only resolutions are the current actions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    I really cannot see now one can make a full assessment. Like Gary said, too many unknowns. One of the reasons the extra precautions are being made is that the medical community does not and admits that they do not know a lot of about this virus.

    The mortality rate for the seasonal flu varies between around .01 to .02 percent in the US. So far this virus is at 1.5-2 percent. That is 100 times greater. So say that half the people in this country get it. Roughly 1 out of every 100 persons you know will die from it. Sound good?

    I guess I sit on the other side of most on this site, as I am one that has a compromised immune system due to childhood cancer as well as risk due to all of my heart issues. I am not panicked, or doing anything irrational. We did buy some extra groceries yesterday and I am going to pick up a few more things today and then we will be set for the next 2-3 weeks easy. Right now I feel safe going about in public and being diligent in my hygiene practices. I am going to start limiting my exposure to the general public after today and plan to self-quarantine myself to Jacobsville once spring breakers come back, as they are sure to bring it back to the Keweenaw. Had a regularly scheduled follow up with my Dr yesterday and said my plan sound very good. He said my risk of complications from it is higher and I really need to be careful.

    I must say that I am a little taken back by the selfishness of some, going about their day and not heeding anything that is asked of them. They probably feel THEY will get by just fine and most likely will. Unfortunately, their actions increases the risk that I and others will get it and could be in real trouble. All for what? A play date? Is everyone really so amped up that they cannot chill out for 2-3 weeks? And money...so you have a drop in income for a bit. Try owning your own business, happens all the time. If you run your business right, you will survive just fine. If you just collect a paycheck and cannot afford to be without income for a few weeks. God help you. You are living way beyond you means and it was going to catch up with you sooner or later.

    I think back to "The Greatest Generation". The sacrifices these folks made is unbelievable. Many went without a meal that contained their typical elements for years. Folks grew "Victory Gardens" so that the troops could get the food they would have otherwise eaten. It was not about themselves, it was about survival for all. In my opinion, we are at the opposite end of the spectrum these days. Me, Me, Me. That is what will take this country down. Not a virus or a recession.

    -John

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    Quote Originally Posted by toddspolaris View Post
    Somebody just wants to make Trump look bad and see the fall of our economy, some people don't want him back in office
    That's my point though. It isn't people out to get him. Other countries are doing the same reactions. No we don't have to follow with the same knee jerk hoarding here, but c'mon quit smokin the grass if you think its fabricated for that reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsnomo View Post
    There is no cure, there is no vaccine. Most get better, about 3% die.

    I'm wintering in San Diego, it's different than the Fox River Valley or Houghton. We have 500 cases, 11 have died, that's 2.2%. Kinda scary in a state with 40 million people.
    No, you have 500 confirmed cases. There are likely thousands more that went undiagnosed, because they had mild symptoms and didn't seek treatment.

    The mortality rate from this virus is not 3%.

    And there is no cure for MOST viruses. This one is not unique.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by favoritos View Post
    There were some big differences with H1N1. They had a vaccine and piles of it sitting in the SNS. Distribution was already in place too. We still lost 12,000 people?
    The H1N1 vaccine was not available until late 2019, after most of the deaths had occurred. The virus started in March of 2009, so it took about 9 months for the vaccine to be readily available. The vaccine for the Kung Flu could take more or less time; nobody knows for sure.

  36. #36
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    ok slight off topic here, but does any of this stuff make anyone , wish we MADE most things again in the USA and didn;t import so many things we all use??
    be more self sufficient so to speak??

    after all passing laws and OUR standards in our OWN country, seems like a better route than relying on God know's what happens else where??


    food for thought here?

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    Back in December my boss was sick for 3 days. Flu like symptoms, never went to the doctor, well, 'cause it was the flu. Or was it the coronavirus?
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

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    Totally agree with Euphoric and Skylar. What is unprecedented is the over reaction. Not disagreeing with what John said either. Common sense and courtesy needs to be part of our society, but to get to the point where businesses are being mandated to close is over board. My opinion the over reaction is going to cause more hardship that the virus to the majority of the country. I know...tell that to the people who died. I get it.
    Last edited by dfattack; 03-18-2020 at 09:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrbb View Post
    ok slight off topic here, but does any of this stuff make anyone , wish we MADE most things again in the USA and didn;t import so many things we all use??
    be more self sufficient so to speak??

    after all passing laws and OUR standards in our OWN country, seems like a better route than relying on God know's what happens else where??


    food for thought here?
    Hopefully this will be a wake-up call to people, that it's very dangerous to our national security to have a growing dependency on a Communist country that is hostile to our interests. It's absolute insanity. But I won't hold my breath.

  40. #40
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    we are overreacting , the united states will be fine

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    Quote Originally Posted by byr 13 View Post
    we are overreacting , the united states will be fine
    But our economy won't. The longer this goes on, the longer it will take to recover.

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    As for FOX, Ingraham, and T jr. anymore, good luck with that!

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    Quote Originally Posted by gary_in_neenah View Post
    Excellent post! I don't have an answer, too many unknowns. So much of the "panic" is cause and effect. They closed down the colleges and now the beaches in Florida are packed. Hospitals in Green Bay are at 97% capacity and paramedics are told to only transport the critical. Early on some stores ran low on Bath Tissue and then the hoarding began. I'm being perfectly honest here (and opinionated) I'm more concerned with the financial consequences then the health concerns. Each day this continues, the recovery is going to take longer and become more costly. We're probably in a Recession right now and don't even know it.
    Lastly, I feel great now but a month ago I was sick as a dog. The wife thinks I had the virus back in February, typical flu with chills, sweats, and a wicked cough that sounded like a dog barking. I felt miserable, was down for three weeks, but I fought through it like I always do and today I'm doing fine. "So, I got that going for me, which is nice."

    I was in a Lowes yesterday and talking with the checkout lady. Last weekend was crazy for crowds, everyone stocking up on "home projects" like paint and tile. Sounds like they're staying home and staying busy for the time being. That's what I'll be doing, catching up on my To Do List. Besides, the dog likes having me home all day, more treats and more exercise. Stay healthy, everyone!
    In bold....why?...was there another big wreck on the freeway?....it sure isn't the 50 ppl who have a cold.

    - - - Updated - - -

    This is just another cold.
    We all have been through the cold and flu season before.

    This is a time where all should be gathering in protest.
    If we don't, we still send an equally powerful message.

  44. #44
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    The economy has been destroyed. Over nothing.

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    Amazing the liberal left has most of the cards. They control most media outlets. But they continue to misplay those cards. Funny actually.

  46. #46
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    So I have a question......How many people do you need to see get sick or die before you want to see some kind of action taken?? Are you going to complain If you become sick and need medical care but hospitals are full or medical staff is too short and no one to care for you?
    Is this overreaction... probably.....but isn't better safe than sorry?

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    There's actually a World wide shortage of some surgical textiles at the moment, starting even before COVID-19. Hospitals are scrambling, and in some cases, they can't get the PPE their employees need. This will continue through the end of the year before supplies recover.

    I would personally like to avoid going to the hospital for COVID-19, if healthcare professionals aren't there to treat me because there is no PPE for them to protect themselves.

    This is absolutely a real concern, and it will be interesting to see how bad this gets before PPE supply stock recovers.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    I really cannot see now one can make a full assessment. Like Gary said, too many unknowns. One of the reasons the extra precautions are being made is that the medical community does not and admits that they do not know a lot of about this virus.

    The mortality rate for the seasonal flu varies between around .01 to .02 percent in the US. So far this virus is at 1.5-2 percent. That is 100 times greater. So say that half the people in this country get it. Roughly 1 out of every 100 persons you know will die from it. Sound good?

    I guess I sit on the other side of most on this site, as I am one that has a compromised immune system due to childhood cancer as well as risk due to all of my heart issues. I am not panicked, or doing anything irrational. We did buy some extra groceries yesterday and I am going to pick up a few more things today and then we will be set for the next 2-3 weeks easy. Right now I feel safe going about in public and being diligent in my hygiene practices. I am going to start limiting my exposure to the general public after today and plan to self-quarantine myself to Jacobsville once spring breakers come back, as they are sure to bring it back to the Keweenaw. Had a regularly scheduled follow up with my Dr yesterday and said my plan sound very good. He said my risk of complications from it is higher and I really need to be careful.

    I must say that I am a little taken back by the selfishness of some, going about their day and not heeding anything that is asked of them. They probably feel THEY will get by just fine and most likely will. Unfortunately, their actions increases the risk that I and others will get it and could be in real trouble. All for what? A play date? Is everyone really so amped up that they cannot chill out for 2-3 weeks? And money...so you have a drop in income for a bit. Try owning your own business, happens all the time. If you run your business right, you will survive just fine. If you just collect a paycheck and cannot afford to be without income for a few weeks. God help you. You are living way beyond you means and it was going to catch up with you sooner or later.

    I think back to "The Greatest Generation". The sacrifices these folks made is unbelievable. Many went without a meal that contained their typical elements for years. Folks grew "Victory Gardens" so that the troops could get the food they would have otherwise eaten. It was not about themselves, it was about survival for all. In my opinion, we are at the opposite end of the spectrum these days. Me, Me, Me. That is what will take this country down. Not a virus or a recession.

    -John
    The mortality rate for the seasonal flu is around .1% not .01% as John mentioned. However, this still makes the coronavirus 10 times more deadly than the regular flu which is nothing to sneeze at. I can't believe all the macho folks here that think this is nothing worse than a cold.
    Last edited by Midwest Player; 03-19-2020 at 02:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dothedoo View Post
    There's actually a World wide shortage of some surgical textiles at the moment, starting even before COVID-19. Hospitals are scrambling, and in some cases, they can't get the PPE their employees need. This will continue through the end of the year before supplies recover. … This is absolutely a real concern, and it will be interesting to see how bad this gets before PPE supply stock recovers.
    So apparently (click ) President Trump will will now use the WW2 era Defense Production Act to force manufacturers to produce the necessary medical supplies, as was done with aircraft and tank production for the war.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    The mortality rate for the seasonal flu is around .1% not .01% as John mentioned. However, this still makes the coronavirus 10 times more deadly than the regular flu which is nothing to sneeze at. I can't believe all the macho folks here that think this is nothing worse than a cold.
    It's because it affects them and nothing makes a boomer mad than something affecting them personally. I've been thinking for a long time how millennials get blamed for the me me me but it's times like this the over 50 crowd are the ones complaining about how it affects them personally. I'm still working and will be until we get shut down. That doesn't mean I'm licking door knobs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    The mortality rate for the seasonal flu is around .1% not .01% as John mentioned. However, this still makes the coronavirus 10 times more deadly than the regular flu which is nothing to sneeze at. I can't believe all the macho folks here that think this is nothing worse than a cold.
    For most people who get the SARS-CoV-2 virus, it is nothing more than a cold. And since they are likely thousands of people who had the virus and were never treated for it, the mortality rate is probably below 1%, and might not be any worse than the common flu.

    This panic and lockdown might be causing more long-term harm than if we did nothing at all (other than tell high-risk individuals to stay home). By not allowing healthy people to be exposed to it, we are not building herd immunity, which will set the stage for a second wave in the fall.

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    I have to laugh...News media now posting confirmed cases like some kind of score board, what a joke. I have news for all of you selfish doomsday preppers out there that are clearing the shelves of food and supplies that common sense people need to feed their families on a daily basis... HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU DONT HAVE IT???? or your kids, husband or neighbors, have you watched the news are you that oblivious??? we are not testing other that at risk people and you have to be prescreened to be tested, you may have it and not even know it for 2 weeks or may not even know you have it at all, the score board is just a Bullsh** number of mostly at risk people who have it, not real numbers people!! One major manufacturing plant shut down because 1 person tested positive, would someone please explain to me how this makes sense when for all we know 50% of the general public may have it but we will never know that for sure because 80% or more of the general public don't fall under that "at risk" population. Meanwhile we are closing or limiting capacities (which might as well say close) at bars, resturants putting people out of work, and now expanding to manufacturing and who knows what. Then you have the wisdom filled local governments asking people to continue to support these businesses that they closed by getting carry out, Ive got news for you...if people aren't working they aren't spending money, we will likely loose a lot of small business as a result of serious overreaction. I figured I would go to grocery store at open this morning only to find out just as busy as a Saturday when other times there may be half a dozen cars in lot, I went inside and I now know when the hoarders are shopping, one person probably had a dozen loaves of bread of all kinds in their cart and as I walked by I had to ask..."are you going to eat all that?" just got a look, COME ON PEOPLE!. State announced also that they are going to rewrite unemployment guidelines not requiring people to have to look for other work, the only people this is a clear benefit is to those that have been living off unemployment for way too long already, because lets face it up until now if you don't have a job you just don't want to work for the most part, How about extending the time to have to repay taxes on the unemployment benefits, and not penalizing the employer by raising their unemployment insurance rates since im sure 90% or more of the businesses that are closed would have rather stayed open. If we are only testing at risk people, we are essentially telling the largest group of the population to ride it out, why the heck are we penalizing society, businesses, world economy and finances because of the "at risk population" ? Its not that I don't care about the at risk people but hundreds of thousands of people die each year from the flu virus. doesn't anyone realize what this overreaction is doing to what keeps this world moving??? PATHETIC I'M SORRY then you had the person on the news who complained how uncomfortable the test was pushing a swab up her news that made her eyes water and forced her to sneeze!! how stupid! Before some accuses me of not caring about the at risk people... I am one of those since I was 27 I have had 2 heart surgeries, I have had 2 strokes in the last 5 years and I take a slew of medications each and every day yet I am not walking around in this "BUBBLE" or living in it, what happens...happens, you aren't going to stop it.
    Last edited by euphoric1; 03-19-2020 at 08:57 AM.

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    I am over 60 but in good health and will still do my part to remain healthy since even though ive had a good life i still have way more to do. Not doing my part and not making an attempt to stop the spread by staying healthy would be SELFISH since getting covid-19 I could potentially spread it to others and that is what is not fair. Just trying to think of others a bit more lately.

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    Yesterday my wife went and got our daughters belongings at school. She said it sure seemed like they had a feeling the school year is done for the year. Kansas announced yesterday that the school year is done. How do they think people are going to handle this?
    s

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    Well written John and I totally agree with a overreaction. I also fear what Skylar stated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Midwest Player View Post
    The mortality rate for the seasonal flu is around .1% not .01% as John mentioned. However, this still makes the coronavirus 10 times more deadly than the regular flu which is nothing to sneeze at. I can't believe all the macho folks here that think this is nothing worse than a cold.

    The problem I have with the mortality comparison, which is a major factor is the testing. The current Covid-19 rate should be followed by "OF THE PATIENTS WHO HAVE BEN TESTED". the flu test is readily available and widely administered. the Covid-19 test so far has been primarily only approved for "at risk" patients. If mostly at risk patients are only being the mortality rate is obviously going to be higher. When the testing becomes widespread and healthy people are testing positive, the rate will go down. Not saying it's nothing to worry about, just that even the percentages can be inaccurate without all details. Just reported yesterday, 99% of all Italy deaths have been in "at risk" population.

    Has anyone on the site been tested for Covid-19?

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    Italy had 475 deaths Yesterday (Wednesday) up from 345 the day before. Up 40% in one day. Yes, Italy is more densely populated, but still this is serious. The US I believe is a couple weeks behind Italy. This is what is trying to be prevented. Learning from what has already happened elsewhere. Look at the statistics on the link below.

    https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/italy/

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdance View Post
    Italy had 475 deaths Yesterday (Wednesday) up from 345 the day before. Up 40% in one day. Yes, Italy is more densely populated, but still this is serious. The US I believe is a couple weeks behind Italy. This is what is trying to be prevented. Learning from what has already happened elsewhere. Look at the statistics on the link below.

    https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/italy/

    Yes, and here's a more detailed breakdown of the deaths. If too long to read, the graphs tell the story -

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ess-italy-says

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    Quote Originally Posted by eagle1 View Post
    So I have a question......How many people do you need to see get sick or die before you want to see some kind of action taken??
    Ask that same question about the regular flu

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    People overreacting.... have you seen Black Friday? Discussion about basic religion or politics? It’s human nature to overreact (there’s a specific term for it that I cannot remember) and when you throw the potential for health issues from something new, something unknown it’s no surprise (to me) people react as they do.

    when discussing mortality rates or issue that have negative consequences I also think to a specific statement ...... it’s only stats and numbers til it’s one of your family members or friends.

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    many opinions here. little info.
    and whoever said that map is treated like a sports score board or maybe like a political score board (frivolity) is on the money.
    testing for antibodies instead of virus could be more comforting. as in a bunch of immune people running around, stay tuned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfattack View Post
    Ask that same question about the regular flu
    THANK YOU VERY MUCH dfattack!! 250,000 - 500,000 a year die from regular flu! and how do we act? certainly not like this! so I hope someone has an answer for this question, guess I better start prepping for next year and the year after that and the year after that and so on and so on and so on

    the original question to dfattack's response was " so I have a question.... How many people do you need to see get sick or die before some kind of action is taken???"

  63. #63
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    New Chinese flu every couple years and sooner or later they will brew one up that will have catostrophic mortality rates. Their wet markets need to be shut down!
    Here is a worthy 9 minute watch on this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPpoJGYlW54

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    Quote Originally Posted by snowdance View Post
    Italy had 475 deaths Yesterday (Wednesday) up from 345 the day before. Up 40% in one day. Yes, Italy is more densely populated, but still this is serious. The US I believe is a couple weeks behind Italy. This is what is trying to be prevented. Learning from what has already happened elsewhere. Look at the statistics on the link below.

    https://www.worldometers.info/corona...country/italy/
    Italy has a lot of elderly, a culture that is not nearly as careful about hygiene as people generally are in the States (especially in hospitals), and lower quality healthcare (regardless of any BS ratings from WHO). It's apples to oranges.

    Yeah, it can be a dangerous virus, just like the typical flu that we see EVERY year. Shelter those at high risk (until a vaccine is available), and everyone else go on about our daily lives. The only thing unprecedented here is the insane level of panic. It's far more dangerous than the virus.

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by euphoric1 View Post
    I have a question, everyone who has read my posts on this covid-19 action knows my stance... a serious overreaction, and I still stand by that opinion. I have a question for both those that share the same opinion as I have and those that don't. I will start with a statement before I ask the question.

    The WHO (world health organization) estimates that 250,000 - 500,000 people die "EACH" year from the influenza virus we encounter year after year, and keep in mind this is something we have vaccines and treatments in place for, and it affects primarily the same age group as the covid-19 is especially fatal to, yet the world goes on, the economy for the most part goes unaffected by it.

    Somewhere between 20,000 - 60,000 people die in our own country from the influenza virus each year with same treatments, from same age group primarily and the world goes on as stated in first listed above.

    So far less than 9000 people have died world wide from covid-19 including places and countries that have seen the virus at such a unprecedented extreme scale and the world economy is on one of its worst downfalls

    So far a little more than 100 people have died in our country, most of which occurred under one roof in the state of Washington, and our economy once strong has TANKED and the worse is yet to come according to officials, I think we are headed to an economic downfall that we as individuals and as a country are not prepared for and am afraid how far it will go.

    We are whether you like it or not desocializing society which will have its own ramifications that we yet know as to what extent and to what extreme it will go.

    Looking at what I have stated above I want those that think this is an overreaction and those that think we are doing the right thing to think about the question I am about to ask and to rsespond without bashing or criticizing one anothers opinion. I also want to state that as an society death should never become accepted or ignored. Here is my question.


    Lets say that in the end 50,000 people die world wide or even 100,000 and lets say fatalities fall way short on our soil of what the influenza virus kills each and every year. How do react from here on out? as the flu virus comes back each year and on average kills 200,000 people world wide, what do we do? do we act as we are? if we don't are we putting a closed eye at the inevidable ? I still think this is an overreaction and am curious for those that think the same or don't think how we should approach flu season next year.
    Did you say Naysayers?
    From Seinfeld;

    "Well, you made a long journey from Milan to Minsk, Rochelle, Rochelle. You never stopped hoping; now you're in a Pinsk, Rochelle, Rochelle. When the naysayers 'nay' you picked up your pace. You said nothing's going to stop me so get out of my face. I'm having adventures all over the place, Rochelle, ROCHELLE!"

    Bear

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    Quote Originally Posted by frnash View Post
    So apparently (click ) President Trump will will now use the WW2 era Defense Production Act to force manufacturers to produce the necessary medical supplies, as was done with aircraft and tank production for the war.
    President Trump’s next step will be to issue an executive order reactivating the WW2 era …
    (click ) Office of Price Administration (OPA),
    to once again issue …
    (click ) ration books, stamps and tokens
    to prevent hoarding.

    “Rationing will win the war, with ‘Meatless Meals’, ‘Wheatless Wednesdays‘ and ‘TP-less Thursdays’ “!


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    Quote Originally Posted by frnash View Post
    President Trump’s next step will be to issue an executive order reactivating the WW2 era …
    (click ) Office of Price Administration (OPA),
    to once again issue …
    (click ) ration books, stamps and tokens
    to prevent hoarding.

    “Rationing will win the war, with ‘Meatless Meals’, ‘Wheatless Wednesdays‘ and ‘TP-less Thursdays’ “!

    Good one!

  68. #68
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    totally agree, you present facts regarding the #s and the danger- and John you are so kind to the yappers that don't really know anything medically (myself included) or even have the #s but still have these strong opinions somehow-In 1918 with a population of only 102,000,000 people, we lost 675,000 people to the Flu in the US, which could have been a much smaller # if people would have listened to the health experts at the time,which was "wash your hands-keep your distance even if you feel fine" I am even keeping distance from my own family -which they fully support!!! I think it's because of the virus but I am not sure!!! take care everyone - I wish you all the best

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    Quote Originally Posted by euphoric1 View Post
    I have a question, everyone who has read my posts on this covid-19 action knows my stance... a serious overreaction, and I still stand by that opinion. I have a question for both those that share the same opinion as I have and those that don't. I will start with a statement before I ask the question.

    The WHO (world health organization) estimates that 250,000 - 500,000 people die "EACH" year from the influenza virus we encounter year after year, and keep in mind this is something we have vaccines and treatments in place for, and it affects primarily the same age group as the covid-19 is especially fatal to, yet the world goes on, the economy for the most part goes unaffected by it.

    Somewhere between 20,000 - 60,000 people die in our own country from the influenza virus each year with same treatments, from same age group primarily and the world goes on as stated in first listed above.

    So far less than 9000 people have died world wide from covid-19 including places and countries that have seen the virus at such a unprecedented extreme scale and the world economy is on one of its worst downfalls

    So far a little more than 100 people have died in our country, most of which occurred under one roof in the state of Washington, and our economy once strong has TANKED and the worse is yet to come according to officials, I think we are headed to an economic downfall that we as individuals and as a country are not prepared for and am afraid how far it will go.

    We are whether you like it or not desocializing society which will have its own ramifications that we yet know as to what extent and to what extreme it will go.

    Looking at what I have stated above I want those that think this is an overreaction and those that think we are doing the right thing to think about the question I am about to ask and to rsespond without bashing or criticizing one anothers opinion. I also want to state that as an society death should never become accepted or ignored. Here is my question.


    Lets say that in the end 50,000 people die world wide or even 100,000 and lets say fatalities fall way short on our soil of what the influenza virus kills each and every year. How do react from here on out? as the flu virus comes back each year and on average kills 200,000 people world wide, what do we do? do we act as we are? if we don't are we putting a closed eye at the inevidable ? I still think this is an overreaction and am curious for those that think the same or don't think how we should approach flu season next year.
    Well said...I agree

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    Quote Originally Posted by euphoric1 View Post
    THANK YOU VERY MUCH dfattack!! 250,000 - 500,000 a year die from regular flu! and how do we act? certainly not like this! so I hope someone has an answer for this question, guess I better start prepping for next year and the year after that and the year after that and so on and so on and so on

    the original question to dfattack's response was " so I have a question.... How many people do you need to see get sick or die before some kind of action is taken???"
    I think it won't be too long and people are going to say enough is enough. Businesses can only stay closed for so long. The feds don't have enough money to keep my businesses going along with every other business that is being impacted. I'm close to being in the group that will have to deal with paid time off and then get reimbursed by the government quarterly. So I have to float the money for 3 month's?

    Yes, this is a serious situation, but so is the annual flu...according to the statistics. What I believe is more serious is what is happening before our very eyes with the countries (and world's) economy and our own citizens ability to pay their bills on time and not live in fear. This over reaction is insane and must NOT become the new NORM for how we react to the next virus that shows up on our shores. It's going to happen and our country is going to get through this...this time, but it's not sustainable on an annual basis. So the question really is...what are we going to do next time? There will be a next time...it's the world we live in. Our response certainly cannot be what we are going through now.

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    So your saying we don’t do enough for the flu?

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    I am what you consider high risk. I'm a 9 year chronic chemo patient. I'm in a hospital at least once a week. What is happening in my opinion is wrong. Those of us that need to can find ways to avoid crowds, but to force a society as a whole to these measures will have long term devastating effects to many people. Yes death is devastating, but so is destroying someone's livelihood. Some people/businesses will not recover from this. With what California announced this evening I'm afraid this country is heading in the direction of Italy. I'm afraid that this will cause a rash of suicides as some people watch their livelihoods get destroyed through no fault of there own.

    At what point do we draw a line. This will cause families to splinter as people already under stress take out their frustrations on those they love the most. My kids came home from school on Monday and my 12 year old outright asked me if I was going to die of the virus. My husband's response the same as it is about my cancer " your mother is to stubborn and ornery to die!". The last thing I need is my kids terrified of living life.

    Do we need to be educated and think about other's yes. But the answer is not to harm so many people in the long run. The effects to the market and economy are devastating. We need to find a way to protect people without uprooting and harming the lives of others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by durphee View Post
    So your saying we don’t do enough for the flu?
    I don't think its that we don't do enough for the flu, what is going to happen and how are we going to react, and why haven't we reacted this way each time the flu season arrives when it kills up to 500,00 people globally annually? this is acceptable and what we have now isn't?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkHardPlayHrd View Post
    I am what you consider high risk. I'm a 9 year chronic chemo patient. I'm in a hospital at least once a week. What is happening in my opinion is wrong. Those of us that need to can find ways to avoid crowds, but to force a society as a whole to these measures will have long term devastating effects to many people. Yes death is devastating, but so is destroying someone's livelihood. Some people/businesses will not recover from this. With what California announced this evening I'm afraid this country is heading in the direction of Italy. I'm afraid that this will cause a rash of suicides as some people watch their livelihoods get destroyed through no fault of there own.

    At what point do we draw a line. This will cause families to splinter as people already under stress take out their frustrations on those they love the most. My kids came home from school on Monday and my 12 year old outright asked me if I was going to die of the virus. My husband's response the same as it is about my cancer " your mother is to stubborn and ornery to die!". The last thing I need is my kids terrified of living life.

    Do we need to be educated and think about other's yes. But the answer is not to harm so many people in the long run. The effects to the market and economy are devastating. We need to find a way to protect people without uprooting and harming the lives of others.
    a sentiment Im sure shared by many, WELL PUT!

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    well, as for the flu, when that hits MY area, I hate to say it, folks here DO panic like this, same as if they call for any BAD weather(its as if they will never get to a store again)
    So you go to small town local market, and the store will be almost all out of bread ,milk, eggs and crap. panic sets in so fast any more on trivial things.

    FOLKS today just get over excited and over react on all things,
    be them bad or even GOOD anymore!

    everyone loves the internet and social media, but hate to say it, without it , most folks maybe wouldn;t even know STATS on anything, or EVEN THINK they know half the crap they THINK they do cause they read it online,(not even knowing if what they read was RIGHT< they NOW think they know something)
    and then they hear about BAD things and begin to worry about them to extreme's and pass on there views online which fuels even more into thinking THERE WAY!

    so like it or not, WE are all guilty of causing this over reactions on all things
    we all add to the mix being on the world wide web adding our 2 cents, which most times causes someone to either agree to disagree and POST it and so on, and sure seems like NO one wants to be out done , and everyone seems to THINK there views are the RIGHT one's all else should almost HAVE to follow, or a big bad debate starts up!
    thus adding more ammo to a event or what ever is happening, and it travels world wide in the blink of an eye!

    and everyone today wanting to be famous, videoing everything, and posting it online
    its only making matters worse IMO

    I think we all could use a big dose of time away from the world wide web,. just doubt it will ever happen unless TECH stops it!

    so, over reacting, NOT reacting enough??
    there will never be a RIGHT way to handle anything any more, when so many will be on the flip side of things, face it FOLKS will never agree on anything, and as more and more people exist, the population will grow on both sides of anything
    its only going to get worse,
    SO maybe like so many other things we USED to care about and NOW DON"T,(shame and pride seem to MIA In many these days too)
    or we have just become numb to,
    I gather we better get used to this over reacting to things, I fore see it being the" NEW, THING to DO!"
    sad, but true , and
    its only going to get worse IMO

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    I didn't panic buy anything yet.....except the Jameson of course.

    I am glad to be able to access all sort of credible stats on past flu epidemics because without it we are doomed even further by them who want this crisis to multiply and totally ruin the economy and of course, Trump.

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    Nobody knows how many people have this virus. Nobody knows how many people have had this virus and recovered from it. So it is impossible to come up with a mortality rate. Any mortality rate that you may see anywhere is fantasy. If Hitler were still alive he would really be getting a charge out of the manipulation of the masses.

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    Yes he would grub! And on both sides!

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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    Nobody knows how many people have this virus. Nobody knows how many people have had this virus and recovered from it. So it is impossible to come up with a mortality rate. Any mortality rate that you may see anywhere is fantasy. If Hitler were still alive he would really be getting a charge out of the manipulation of the masses.

    And we have a Hitler name drop... LOL I stayed out of this for as long as I could. My wife was tested tuesday and thankfully it came back negative yesterday. So back to work for me. I bought us supper from the bar/grill up town last night. It was handed to me through the front window of the place. IDK how places like that are going to survive. Thought I better patronize the place. I saw they found a cure for the covid-19 virus. Throw you TV out the window!! Problem solved. Im sure there is some reason to be nervous but come on? Shutting down entire industries and crashing our economy? What a dream for the chinamen!! Now maybe people will understand what Trump was trying to do with the china problem. When everything you need is being produced by your enemy?? What do you think is going to happen? This problem will have ongoing effects that we won't understand for years. Think of all the components to make things that need to come from china? Maybe he is right and deserves some credit for trying to bring these products back to MFG in AMERICA!! Saw a good slogan the other day. Our Grandparents fought World War II. We are being asked to sit on our couch for 2 weeks. You can do it!!

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    And we have a Hitler name drop... LOL I stayed out of this for as long as I could. My wife was tested tuesday and thankfully it came back negative yesterday. So back to work for me. I bought us supper from the bar/grill up town last night. It was handed to me through the front window of the place. IDK how places like that are going to survive. Thought I better patronize the place. I saw they found a cure for the covid-19 virus. Throw you TV out the window!! Problem solved. Im sure there is some reason to be nervous but come on? Shutting down entire industries and crashing our economy? What a dream for the chinamen!! Now maybe people will understand what Trump was trying to do with the china problem. When everything you need is being produced by your enemy?? What do you think is going to happen? This problem will have ongoing effects that we won't understand for years. Think of all the components to make things that need to come from china? Maybe he is right and deserves some credit for trying to bring these products back to MFG in AMERICA!! Saw a good slogan the other day. Our Grandparents fought World War II. We are being asked to sit on our couch for 2 weeks. You can do it!!
    I certainly don't want this to become a political mess again - So far, I think things are going about as well as they could, with how this went to full panic. Let's give some credit to the guy, even Cuomo in NY did yesterday. Stop asking stupid questions at press conferences, and as you say, throw the f'n TV out the window!!

    I did the same last night with one of my local stops that delivers pizzas - ordered what I would normally eat and tacked on an extra $10 tip - I know its pennies in the grand scheme of things, but for those who have lost most of their business, we have to do what we can.

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    Illinois just issued stay put order....here we go folks

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr440 View Post
    but for those who have lost most of their business, we have to do what we can.
    Well, I ventured out to get a haircut today. The lady that cuts my hair charges $15, I gave her a twenty because she was almost in tears.
    The state is shutting down her business at 5:00 today in violation of the Six Foot Rule or Social Distancing. She can't cut hair from six feet away from your head so they're closing her up. These are some crazy times we're living in.

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    I tried getting my mop cut yesterday. Shut down till the end of the month.

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    Crap hit the ventilation system in California yesterday with a statewide shutdown. No change here in San Diego as we were already locked down, over 65 (me)supposed to stay home. We can go out to walk,run,hike, so I figured a bike ride would be ok.

    Took a 14 mile roundtrip ride to my dispensary and bought a quarter.

    Really don't care much now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsnomo View Post
    Crap hit the ventilation system in California yesterday with a statewide shutdown. No change here in San Diego as we were already locked down, over 65 (me)supposed to stay home. We can go out to walk,run,hike, so I figured a bike ride would be ok.

    Took a 14 mile roundtrip ride to my dispensary and bought a quarter.

    Really don't care much now.
    Now this is what I like to hear. How do you keep your lungs healthy for a bike ride like that if you smokey da reefer?? Sounds like you are making lemonade any way!!

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    3600 sick ppl was tested in WI...216 have it ,...3 died ...BUT NOT FROM IT ALONE!!!!!! Lifestyle and individual health keep you alive or kill you.

    51,000 died from the regular flu in 2019 in WI.....how man need to die of c-19 per day to catch that every year stat????

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    3600 sick ppl was tested in WI...216 have it ,...3 died ...BUT NOT FROM IT ALONE!!!!!! Lifestyle and individual health keep you alive or kill you.

    51,000 died from the regular flu in 2019 in WI.....how man need to die of c-19 per day to catch that every year stat????
    Whoa, 51K in 2019, in Sconny? Just what is this "regular flu"? Seems as "regular", "normal", don't mean what they used to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Whoa, 51K in 2019, in Sconny? Just what is this "regular flu"? Seems as "regular", "normal", don't mean what they used to?
    Meant US

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    Slim, not being political but Trump stated that Chloroquine was FDA approved to treat the Coronvirus. To be specifically clear.....no drug has been FDA approved nor peer reviewed to treat Covid-19. This is a dangerous statement for many hoping for a
    quick cure....which I really hope there is and that this drug is the cure! Scientists will find a cure in time, I absolutely believe that cause I trust in science and the process....it just might not be in time for some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by durphee View Post
    Slim, not being political but Trump stated that Chloroquine was FDA approved to treat the Coronvirus. To be specifically clear.....no drug has been FDA approved nor peer reviewed to treat Covid-19. This is a dangerous statement for many hoping for a
    quick cure....which I really hope there is and that this drug is the cure! Scientists will find a cure in time, I absolutely believe that cause I trust in science and the process....it just might not be in time for some.
    The drug is already approved by the FDA and has been going back to the 1940's. I haven't heard it's specifically approved for the China Flu, but they are already running tests to see how it works for it. That is great news and provides a little bit of hope.

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    Yes , you repeated my statement as it’s not FDA approved for COVID 19.
    Last edited by durphee; 03-21-2020 at 12:59 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by durphee View Post
    Slim, not being political but Trump stated that Chloroquine was FDA approved to treat the Coronvirus. To be specifically clear.....no drug has been FDA approved nor peer reviewed to treat Covid-19. This is a dangerous statement for many hoping for a
    quick cure....which I really hope there is and that this drug is the cure! Scientists will find a cure in time, I absolutely believe that cause I trust in science and the process....it just might not be in time for some.
    Spot on! X2!

  92. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by durphee View Post
    Slim, not being political but Trump stated that Chloroquine was FDA approved to treat the Coronvirus. To be specifically clear.....no drug has been FDA approved nor peer reviewed to treat Covid-19. This is a dangerous statement for many hoping for a
    quick cure....which I really hope there is and that this drug is the cure! Scientists will find a cure in time, I absolutely believe that cause I trust in science and the process....it just might not be in time for some.
    You're not being political, but Trump's statement, which was corrected by Fauci in the same press conference , and Trump said Fauci was "100 Correct" is something you called a "Dangerous Statement."

    Nobody would refer to what Trump said as a "dangerous statement", unless they were trying to be political.

    Try watching less CNN, MSNBC, or whatever it is you watch. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by durphee View Post
    Yes , you repeated my statement as it’s not FDA approved for COVID 19.

    To be clear, I was simply clarifying that the drug was an FDA approved drug. Nothing more

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    we are truly in trouble.... Hallmark channel is going to start showing Christmas movies again and I have seen I am Legend on twice in last 2 days, just what the gullible society needs to see while they are cooped up for who knows how long from this world ending virus.
    I also have a beef to vent on...This morning they announced that part of this stimulus package could potentially be student loan forgiveness....UMMMMM....WAIT A BLANKING MINUTE.... They have mandated that depending on where you are businesses close putting tens of thousands out of work and there will be many that will be out of business and not ever reopen, not by their choice! Peoples dreams, hard work and lifetime investment...GONE! and again not by choice! we are going to send americans $1200, and small businesses are for some forced to close their doors for good, or pursue loans to stay afloat while they have little or no money coming in. And I don't know how many of non business owners know this but as a business owner you pay for unemployment insurance and you pay into a pool, and if one of your employees collect even though you and they have paid into the pool and some until now have never collected on it, the employers unemployment insurance rate goes up, but here is the best part..... the business owner can only collect 4 weeks of unemployment.... 4 WEEKS!!! and for part of this stimulus package we may forgive student loans???? I HAVE A REAL PROBLEM WITH THAT!!!! why not direct that money towards speeding up research and development of a vaccine or treatment to end or slowdown this world ending crisis. Or instead of businesses being forced to close their doors for ever or having to pursue loans to cover expenses, why don't we grant money to the small businesses that actually FUEL this economy!! Yes, I have a real problem with forgiving student loans, I think the money can go to far better use to restore or help things that actually fuel the economy, instead we just keep shutting them down and for some putting them out of business for good.

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    I suspect it's politics as usual. Forgiving Student Loans has been on the wish list of a certain political party for a long time. If one guy asks for money for research or small business, the guy on the other side says I want something too. It's why government programs are so bloated but it's how things get done in the swamp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    3600 sick ppl was tested in WI...216 have it ,...3 died ...BUT NOT FROM IT ALONE!!!!!! Lifestyle and individual health keep you alive or kill you.

    51,000 died from the regular flu in 2019 in WI.....how man need to die of c-19 per day to catch that every year stat????
    The people that get really sick and die usually have one or more of these 3 things going on. Obesity, Type 2 diabetes or high blood pressure. Older people usually are more prone to have these conditions. Not rocket science. Nature at work. Most of them have one foot in the grave already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    3600 sick ppl was tested in WI...216 have it ,...3 died ...BUT NOT FROM IT ALONE!!!!!! Lifestyle and individual health keep you alive or kill you.

    51,000 died from the regular flu in 2019 in WI.....how man need to die of c-19 per day to catch that every year stat????
    I don't know where you dreamed up your statistics. Maybe you are the source of the FAKE NEWS! Actual numbers are: 2017-2018 flu season--379 deaths in Wisconsin and over 7500 hospitalizations--2018-2019 flu season--126 deaths and 3400 hospitalized in Wisconsin.

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by boilerrph View Post
    I don't know where you dreamed up your statistics. Maybe you are the source of the FAKE NEWS! Actual numbers are: 2017-2018 flu season--379 deaths in Wisconsin and over 7500 hospitalizations--2018-2019 flu season--126 deaths and 3400 hospitalized in Wisconsin.
    In post 87 he clarified that he meant it was the entire country not just Wisconsin

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    Meant US
    According to CDC statistics: US deaths related to influenza for 2018-2019 season--approximately 34,000.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dfattack View Post
    In post 87 he clarified that he meant it was the entire country not just Wisconsin
    Sorry, I did not catch that.

  100. #100
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    Sorry i messed up 50-60,000 US flu related deaths in 2019. And my point still stands that the flu was just the last straw, NOT THE CAUSE OF DEATH....unless of course you is using stats to manipulate and confuse the general population.

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