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  1. #1
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    Default MATRYX Coming to Pat's Motorsports!

    So on the brighter side we will have a 2021 Preproduction Switchback Assault 146 coming to the dealership April 8th through the end of the day (Friday) April 10th. No rides will be allowed but you will be able to see it and sit on it. Kevin Bielke from Snow Tech Magazine rode it and reported that it was the best sled he's ever ridden! Hopefully we will see some of you on those dates! Feel free to call, email, or private message me. Thank you! Kip

    www.patsmotorsports.com
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  2. #2
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    The new gauge is amazing. One of the best gauges, including car gauges, I have seen.

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    Yes it it durphee and the pictures do not do this sled justice. The colors in person are great and the new cockpit is unbelievable.

  4. #4
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    I think that is great, especially now that so many viewing shows have been cancelled. However you are one of the fortunate dealers who get a new unit, while so many others do not.

    I was seriously considering a VR1 or a Launch, but with the shows cancelled, I did not think i would ever get to see one prior to snow checking. I know the internet, reviews, and publications have covered them already, but still I wanted to actually sit on one and check them out. I usually do not worry about that, but switching back from riding Ski Doo 850's over the past 4 years, and having a good amount of seat time on a 2020 XCR 850 and XC 850, which I was ok with but not overly thrilled, i wanted to actually see and feel a Matrix chassis.

    So here is my beef: I think Polaris needs to get prototypes, mid year releases, etc. into the pipeline for people to see, yes, like Ski Doo does. I have 2 friends who own multi brand dealers in Wisconsin, Polaris included, and have been communicating this to Polaris for years, but they say this goes on deaf ears. Both were at the launch in Dallas, and when Polaris apparently communicated they were working on the Martix for the past 3 years, they simple asked why no mid year release, samples for dealers, etc.....? Polaris apparently does not believe that is necessary, though it appears some dealers think the opposite. You can favor your own opinion.

    For me personally, I ordered another 2021 850 SkiDoo. I physically saw it, and spoke personally with several people (multi brand dealer related) who rode the 2020.5 release for extended miles, with the new X front and X rear. I understand things can and will change prior to full production, but what I saw and heard I liked.

    Also need to disclose that my company, which I am a 50/50 owner of, is a support supplier (non part related) for Polaris, and I also own a Polaris sled and several off road vehicles. I wish them the best, and to an extent benefit from them when business is good, but just wanted to epress my opinion on what they could do.

  5. #5
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    I understand where you're coming from tsg but quite a few dealers did ride them and gave feedback on them. Kevin from Snow Tech loves Ski Doo sleds, so for him to say that is huge for the new Polaris sled. It's going all over the midwest so people can sit on it and see it. I don't disagree that mid-season models would possibly be good but then why a reveal? I don't know the right answer.

  6. #6
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    I will say this about this new Matryx. And this is serious.
    I have had many 2 strokes and several of them were Polaris. The last one being a 2004 XC800SP.
    I have been 4 stroke only the last few years. Hate 2 strokes now. Hate the smell. Hate bringing oil along.
    I have not sat on a Polaris for 15 years. Not one. I have no idea about the advancements they have made since 2004.
    And obviously I have not even seen a Matryx in person. Seen a few youtube videos.
    But I am seriously considering ordering one. They are incredible machines.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsg View Post
    I think that is great, especially now that so many viewing shows have been cancelled. However you are one of the fortunate dealers who get a new unit, while so many others do not.

    I was seriously considering a VR1 or a Launch, but with the shows cancelled, I did not think i would ever get to see one prior to snow checking. I know the internet, reviews, and publications have covered them already, but still I wanted to actually sit on one and check them out. I usually do not worry about that, but switching back from riding Ski Doo 850's over the past 4 years, and having a good amount of seat time on a 2020 XCR 850 and XC 850, which I was ok with but not overly thrilled, i wanted to actually see and feel a Matrix chassis.

    So here is my beef: I think Polaris needs to get prototypes, mid year releases, etc. into the pipeline for people to see, yes, like Ski Doo does. I have 2 friends who own multi brand dealers in Wisconsin, Polaris included, and have been communicating this to Polaris for years, but they say this goes on deaf ears. Both were at the launch in Dallas, and when Polaris apparently communicated they were working on the Martix for the past 3 years, they simple asked why no mid year release, samples for dealers, etc.....? Polaris apparently does not believe that is necessary, though it appears some dealers think the opposite. You can favor your own opinion.

    For me personally, I ordered another 2021 850 SkiDoo. I physically saw it, and spoke personally with several people (multi brand dealer related) who rode the 2020.5 release for extended miles, with the new X front and X rear. I understand things can and will change prior to full production, but what I saw and heard I liked.

    Also need to disclose that my company, which I am a 50/50 owner of, is a support supplier (non part related) for Polaris, and I also own a Polaris sled and several off road vehicles. I wish them the best, and to an extent benefit from them when business is good, but just wanted to epress my opinion on what they could do.
    Sup TSG,
    I agree, and the Multi-Dealer I favor (Doo and Poo) is "almost" hostile to how Poo releases things, especially this year. He dislikes how late in the winter Poo released their new sleds and had their Dealer show.
    Why? THE SNOW IS ALL GONE, YOU HAVE TO GET BUYERS PUMPED WHEN THERE IS SNOW!

    Additionally, he is not pleased with Poo's handing of the "wiring problem" that is plaguing 850 sleds causing default to limp-mode.
    Hopefully they get it sorted.

    Bear

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    So on the brighter side we will have a 2021 Preproduction Switchback Assault 146 coming to the dealership April 8th through the end of the day (Friday) April 10th. No rides will be allowed but you will be able to see it and sit on it. Kevin Bielke from Snow Tech Magazine rode it and reported that it was the best sled he's ever ridden! Hopefully we will see some of you on those dates! Feel free to call, email, or private message me. Thank you! Kip

    www.patsmotorsports.com
    kip@patsmotorsports.com
    PH#906-883-3536
    Hi Kip,
    I have built a few sleds on the Poo website and want an experts opinion; "what Poo would a Doo loyalist consider similar to a Renegade 850 X-Package"?
    My thought is a VR-1 137 with E/S but the mandated gauge (was told an expense of $1,200) throws pricing off a bit (Doo MSRP $14,099 to Poo MSRP $15,624).

    Sincerely, Bear

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    Bear,
    I get the point with the early release. That being said, what about dealers that have a lot of product left and then have to deal with lost sales over a early release? It's just a question. I agree we have to pump people up but it's a fine line. VR-1 comes with the 7" display automatically. Only one that doesn't is the Launch. So are you saying you would want the display if you built one hypothetically? Thanks.

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    I stand corrected, I have received an email from 2 dealers and I know of others who will have a VR1 at their site within the next few weeks. Also know my good friend the dealer is getting a 650 and 850 VR1! So good to see Polaris is getting the sleds so people can see. But, was this a result of the shows being cancelled, or change in corporate philosphy? And, doubt people will be allowed to sit or touch them, hopefully not!

    I suffered this year for jumping the gun, but I just like to make decisions based on my time frame, and move forward. And, who thought the world would be where we are at today?

    As for the excess inventory sitting around, simple: when you roll out a mid year or preview sled, put discounts on the existing. Seems to work for SkiDoo.

    But Kip you know the industry better then me, and the margins, so I will leave it at that. Also Kip, I really enjoy your honestly and how you can see a number of different viewpoints and sides.

  11. #11
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    tsg, thank you. I appreciate your take as well. You make good points and Ski Doo doesn't sell a lot of sleds because they don't have good product, or don't have good marketing skills. Rebates certainly help as long as the companies are proactive about it. When we get use to a certain way of doing things sometimes we can't see other avenues that work better and in this case you could very well be correct! They did have plans to get the VR1 to dealers regardless of the shows cancelling, but they didn't do a good job letting the consumer or some of us dealers even! Most mistakes are made by poor communication..

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    tsg, thank you. I appreciate your take as well. You make good points and Ski Doo doesn't sell a lot of sleds because they don't have good product, or don't have good marketing skills. Rebates certainly help as long as the companies are proactive about it. When we get use to a certain way of doing things sometimes we can't see other avenues that work better and in this case you could very well be correct! They did have plans to get the VR1 to dealers regardless of the shows cancelling, but they didn't do a good job letting the consumer or some of us dealers even! Most mistakes are made by poor communication..
    I have my beefs with both manufacturers Marketing (look at my posts on Doo-talk and Doo Facebook demanding for the CMO to be FIRED).
    Anyway, Doo provided $500 coupons last year on 2020 Snow-Checks (and screwed that up) Poo offered coupons on leftover 18's in 2019 and now I am addicted to coupons! Last June, Poo even gave me a coupon to get an additional 2 year Ranger warranty.
    With the virus, the manufacturers (and their moron Marketing departments) better get coupons out asap or they will be laying off production staff soon. Free financing is not enough!
    Dealers can't eat it, THE MANUFACTURERS HAVE TOO!

    Bear

    Bear

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    Bear,
    I get the point with the early release. That being said, what about dealers that have a lot of product left and then have to deal with lost sales over a early release? It's just a question. I agree we have to pump people up but it's a fine line. VR-1 comes with the 7" display automatically. Only one that doesn't is the Launch. So are you saying you would want the display if you built one hypothetically? Thanks.
    I am not aware of how either Poo or Doo's 2021 new gauge works yet (strange for me).
    What I "would" pay for is one that works independently from a phone, for the prices asking it ought to in my thoughts.
    Then I would buy a gauge for $800-$1,200.

    Bear

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    The 7s from Poo is independent from your phone. If you want that. Much much faster than the PIDD as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSzF6U6Pg-4 If ya have ten minutes. Looks pretty cool to me.

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    I just can't see spending another grand on a gauge that I won't look at anyway! Speed, Temp, mileage and Fuel with the occasional RPM check - I really don't need anymore than that. If I need to see which way a trail goes, I can still pull out my phone, and I'll probably take a few minutes to snap a pic while I'm at it!

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    You got it slimcake, it is separate from your phone and I agree Bear it should be figured in at the price, which it is. XCR440 you make a good point, but lots of people do want it. You can buy the Launch without the gauge if it means nothing to you. Now onto your question Bear. The New VR1 137 850 which comes standard with the 7" display is $15,599 MSRP. So Doo is for sure cheaper but does the Doo have the display is my question? If not, then it's not apples for apples. If you get the Launch which is the New MATRYX Platform then MSRP is $14,299 so that would be awful close to Doo and actually a pretty good price for a new platform. Hope this helps or makes sense to you, and it is the XC shock package at $14,299 Bear. I believe they're right there with Doo.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    You got it slimcake, it is separate from your phone and I agree Bear it should be figured in at the price, which it is. XCR440 you make a good point, but lots of people do want it. You can buy the Launch without the gauge if it means nothing to you. Now onto your question Bear. The New VR1 137 850 which comes standard with the 7" display is $15,599 MSRP. So Doo is for sure cheaper but does the Doo have the display is my question? If not, then it's not apples for apples. If you get the Launch which is the New MATRYX Platform then MSRP is $14,299 so that would be awful close to Doo and actually a pretty good price for a new platform. Hope this helps or makes sense to you, and it is the XC shock package at $14,299 Bear. I believe they're right there with Doo.
    I agree. More research on my end tells me the Launch is a VR with a bit less shock and no gauge..seems reasonable.

    Bear

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    The 7s from Poo is independent from your phone. If you want that. Much much faster than the PIDD as well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSzF6U6Pg-4 If ya have ten minutes. Looks pretty cool to me.
    Good vid, pretty nice.

    Bear

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    As to tsg “And, doubt people will be allowed to sit or touch them, hopefully not!”

    Lot of good points on this thread. Polaris brought a VR1 and a 146 Assault to my local dealer and the Polaris reps said right off the bat.....jump on the sled, see how it feels, explained in detail the difference between last year and this model, Mess with the new gauge...so it was a great experience at the preview....minus the huge part of not being able to ride them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Kip, I guess this goes with not being able to demo one is with all the hype of the 650 engine which has really interested me, I just wonder if that engine will perform in production as the pre production one. I am coming off a 850 assault and the 650 would suit me fine if it delivers what is being promised. Any word or info on that? I appreciate you taking the time and responding to the posts !
    Last edited by durphee; 03-20-2020 at 10:56 PM.

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    No problem Durphee. According to two dealers who rode it, and Kevin from Snow Tech the 650 flat out rips and will give 800's a run for it's money. They all told me if you didn't look at the decal you would swear you're riding a 800 with just better efficiency. They all told me the efficiency is going to be excellent. We've been snowchecking quite a few 650's. Hope this helps!

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    Kip I'm not trying to throw a trick question here. Ball park, sled, to sled, what is the price difference between the 650, and the 850?

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Kip I'm not trying to throw a trick question here. Ball park, sled, to sled, what is the price difference between the 650, and the 850?
    $1,000

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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    No problem Durphee. According to two dealers who rode it, and Kevin from Snow Tech the 650 flat out rips and will give 800's a run for it's money. They all told me if you didn't look at the decal you would swear you're riding a 800 with just better efficiency. They all told me the efficiency is going to be excellent. We've been snowchecking quite a few 650's. Hope this helps!
    Do you know if it is going to drink as much oil as an 850?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbide View Post
    $1,000
    Thanks a bunch Kip! The 650 is going to have to be everything it's supposed to be at that price. Otherwise the 850 resale value is the way to go imo. I'm waiting for some real, true, on snow results, but it sure has my attention with the 87 octane. This is not E-87, correct? You can bet Doo's 650 is just around the corner. However, perhaps not, due to the racing part being what it is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Thanks a bunch Kip! The 650 is going to have to be everything it's supposed to be at that price. Otherwise the 850 resale value is the way to go imo. I'm waiting for some real, true, on snow results, but it sure has my attention with the 87 octane. This is not E-87, correct? You can bet Doo's 650 is just around the corner. However, perhaps not, due to the racing part being what it is?
    Doo just build an all new 600 to fit the gen-4 chassis so not sure they will be going up to 650, just my thought.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    Doo just build an all new 600 to fit the gen-4 chassis so not sure they will be going up to 650, just my thought.
    A new fuel/injection(EFI) system yes, a all new engine, no. The Etec direct fuel injection (DFI), is much more costly, but also much more precise, and efficient. The 600R would easily become a 650R as designed. 600R was a new design to fit G4, all new as to the 600Etec, as was the Doo 850.
    Last edited by old abe; 03-22-2020 at 08:26 AM.

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    I'm just debating which engine and track option I will put on my order sheet.
    2021 VR1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    A new fuel/injection(EFI) system yes, a all new engine, no. The Etec direct fuel injection (DFI), is much more costly, but also much more precise, and efficient. The 600R would easily become a 650R as designed. 600R was a new design to fit G4, all new as to the 600Etec, as was the Doo 850.
    Might as well only make an 850 (get rid of 600 e-tec) to save tooling/parts cost, the 850 is only 14 lbs. more.
    The way Doo is organizing rebates-incentives the pricing becomes about a $500 difference.
    At resale time the 600's are getting way less than $500..plus the 850 has usable power from off idle to the moon.

    Probable wont happen but I will not buy another 600 at the current business model.

    Bear

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    old abe, sorry I'm late getting back to you. It can run off 87 or E87. It's 40% more efficient between 20 to 50 mph than the 600. It gets 10% better oil efficiency than the 600 as well. Hope this helps. Order up carbide! You aren't going to be disappointed!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    old abe, sorry I'm late getting back to you. It can run off 87 or E87. It's 40% more efficient between 20 to 50 mph than the 600. It gets 10% better oil efficiency than the 600 as well. Hope this helps. Order up carbide! You aren't going to be disappointed!
    Thanks Kip! Those figures would put it right with our 600 SDI Doo's. Usually our fuel cost per mile would be very equal. Prem 91 gave us better mpg's than the lower grade fuel, thus costs pretty equal on the mileage traveled. However, not needing 91 is nice, and very convenient! Puzzling that the 850 isn't this way also?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fujifilm View Post
    Might as well only make an 850 (get rid of 600 e-tec) to save tooling/parts cost, the 850 is only 14 lbs. more.
    The way Doo is organizing rebates-incentives the pricing becomes about a $500 difference.
    At resale time the 600's are getting way less than $500..plus the 850 has usable power from off idle to the moon.

    Probable wont happen but I will not buy another 600 at the current business model.

    Bear
    This maybe is why fuji, Doo's 600 Etec is said to be the sales leader in all snowmobile engines?

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    Good question. Maybe that technology will be available or maybe they needed to keep the 850 on 91 for performance reasons. Don't think people feel the same way about efficiency when it comes to bigger HP engines?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    Good question. Maybe that technology will be available or maybe they needed to keep the 850 on 91 for performance reasons. Don't think people feel the same way about efficiency when it comes to bigger HP engines?
    Agree Kip! Most buy the 850 for its very strong performance would be my guess? I'm thinking the new 650 tuning is a all together different set up. Such as porting, injection/ignition mapping etc? That's why there are many who will feel the 650 is in their "wants" range.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    old abe, sorry I'm late getting back to you. It can run off 87 or E87. It's 40% more efficient between 20 to 50 mph than the 600. It gets 10% better oil efficiency than the 600 as well. Hope this helps. Order up carbide! You aren't going to be disappointed!
    For a guy like me who will keep a sled for awhile, this is a big deal. We try to plan routes to avoid grades, so this would be enough engine.

    If you're trading up every year and paying more in sales tax than depreciation, then I doubt the 650 makes any sense. The cost to own one for a year will be no different between the two.

    In my view it's still priced too close to the 850 but I'm not in the market anyway.

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    I can't say I disagree with you Hoosier. It's all about what makes you happy. We all make a lot of purchases that probably don't make a lot of sense or are logical, but sometimes those purchases bring the most pleasure to you. It's all in the eyes of the beholder. No right or wrong I don't think. For sure Abe, timing/porting are totally different. We're snowchecking quite a few of them so many people are excited about the 650 platform and what it has to offer.

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    In all reality there are very few reasons to buy anything bigger than the 650. Only a small fraction of the people that buy them ride them to their limits. If a capable guy on a 600 or now a 650 gets ahead of a guy on an 850 in the woods the 850 is not going to get by him. They are simply not that much stronger. The only place an 850 will shine is on the grades or a lake. Even then if he lets off for 3 seconds the 6 will be right there if the guy on the 6 is holding it. Plus the added benefit of fuel economy and cheap fuel and promised oil comsumption there is not much to talk about. I will be calling you, Kip.

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    Good take on it Grub. I'll be waiting!

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    Insurance will also be less with the 650.

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    There might be a 650 in the future. I do not like buying a first year sled but riding more in Wisconsin that might be what I am looking next year to snow check.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    I can't say I disagree with you Hoosier. It's all about what makes you happy. We all make a lot of purchases that probably don't make a lot of sense or are logical, but sometimes those purchases bring the most pleasure to you. It's all in the eyes of the beholder. No right or wrong I don't think. For sure Abe, timing/porting are totally different. We're snowchecking quite a few of them so many people are excited about the 650 platform and what it has to offer.
    I think this might be my next sled. Probably will be 2 or 3 years though. If it's as advertised it's the right combo of power and efficiency.

    Of course by then Polaris will have another all-new sled with reviews stating how much better it is than the one before it

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    Quote Originally Posted by katden4 View Post
    Insurance will also be less with the 650.
    Insurance has to do with sled value. It has nothing to do with engine displacement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    Insurance has to do with sled value. It has nothing to do with engine displacement.
    Disagree. I had quotes on a Sidewinder 998cc vs a SR Viper 1049cc

    The Sidewinder sled value is higher and has way more power but it was cheaper to insure.

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    Allstate was only concerned about the CC. Agent snowmobiled and said he could not help me

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    You could be right Hoosier! LOL!

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    Is that considered essential travel to come up there and sit on that Sled?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tsg View Post
    I stand corrected, I have received an email from 2 dealers and I know of others who will have a VR1 at their site within the next few weeks. Also know my good friend the dealer is getting a 650 and 850 VR1! So good to see Polaris is getting the sleds so people can see. But, was this a result of the shows being cancelled, or change in corporate philosphy? And, doubt people will be allowed to sit or touch them, hopefully not!

    I suffered this year for jumping the gun, but I just like to make decisions based on my time frame, and move forward. And, who thought the world would be where we are at today?

    As for the excess inventory sitting around, simple: when you roll out a mid year or preview sled, put discounts on the existing. Seems to work for SkiDoo.

    But Kip you know the industry better then me, and the margins, so I will leave it at that. Also Kip, I really enjoy your honestly and how you can see a number of different viewpoints and sides.
    The sleds coming to the dealerships was a result of the shows being canceled and snowcheck numbers down due to the virus causing uncertainty with jobs. Polaris told the reps to grab the pre production sleds and starting showing them at dealers.

    As for a early release (2020.5) I see no need for that. AS Kip said, it will only hurt dealers selling 2020 sleds they have left. Its not like you can ride it unless you are buying it. Whether I see the next year sled in February or March it doesn't really matter to me.

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    You could be right Hoosier! LOL!
    that's why I have a Cat - no worries about them coming out with something new that will make mine obsolete! Hahaha

  46. #46
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    LOL!!! That's hilarious!!

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by longtrack View Post
    Is that considered essential travel to come up there and sit on that Sled?
    If you stop in Ishpeming it is.

    Bear

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fujifilm View Post
    If you stop in Ishpeming it is.

    Bear
    Negaunee at the fire station?

  49. #49
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    pretty nice

  50. #50
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    The 146 Matryx Switchback Assault 850 is here!!

  51. #51
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    Let's see a pic!

  52. #52
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    Mark you know you want it

  53. #53
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    I'm away from work but I will Monday. I've been asked this question a few times so for all that do not already know the Matryx along with every other Polaris sled does come with a recoil.

  54. #54
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  55. #55
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    See Paul this is why I didn't pull the trigger on the sexy XCR you had in the showroom last winter!! I told ya this would happen!! Think I am going VR1 though! 1583778521798-productstill.jpg

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    that's why I have a Cat - no worries about them coming out with something new that will make mine obsolete! Hahaha
    Haha...funny hoosier...but your forgetting HOW LONG it took for the others to get rid of trailing arms and pogo sticks....and it's no coincidence a new polaris look EXACTLY like a CAT from the side view....its about time they got onboard with a good design...lol

  57. #57
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    Looks good, thanks for the pics! Where is the plug in this year for a heated shield? It doesn't look like it is in the middle of the handlebars any longer.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracker View Post
    Haha...funny hoosier...but your forgetting HOW LONG it took for the others to get rid of trailing arms and pogo sticks....and it's no coincidence a new polaris look EXACTLY like a CAT from the side view....its about time they got onboard with a good design...lol
    I don't see the resemblance to a Cat that you do. Where are the ugly 2 foot high spindles on the Poo?

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracker View Post
    Haha...funny hoosier...but your forgetting HOW LONG it took for the others to get rid of trailing arms and pogo sticks....and it's no coincidence a new polaris look EXACTLY like a CAT from the side view....its about time they got onboard with a good design...lol
    I'm happy with my Cat. Rode both Doo's and Poo's (and a Viper, but that's still a Cat) this winter and am happy with what I have for the price I have in it. Those other brands are nice, don't get me wrong, but not at the prices they are asking. Glad others can buy them though and keep the sport going.

  60. #60
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    Mark,

    This one doesn't come equipped with the heated shield plug but if my memory serves me correctly it's between the legs near the ignition.

  61. #61
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    Is that the high windshield?

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    Mark,

    This one doesn't come equipped with the heated shield plug but if my memory serves me correctly it's between the legs near the ignition.
    Thanks Kip! That's where I thought they would put it looking at the brochure. I like that location.

  63. #63
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    It's a great spot for it.

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