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Thread: 2021 Yamahas

  1. #1
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    Default 2021 Yamahas

    If there was any year for Yamaha to bring out a "Yamaha" sled, and not a rebranded Cat, this should have been the year. They have added two more 2-strokes, both made by Cat. What is Yamaha thinking? How many Yamaha loyalists will be jumping ship now? I mean, you have waited long enough for a new "Yamaha" sled and not something rebranded.

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    Well not buying anything my 2017 Viper will be fine. 18k for a Sidewinder they can keep them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    If there was any year for Yamaha to bring out a "Yamaha" sled, and not a rebranded Cat, this should have been the year. They have added two more 2-strokes, both made by Cat. What is Yamaha thinking? How many Yamaha loyalists will be jumping ship now? I mean, you have waited long enough for a new "Yamaha" sled and not something rebranded.
    You might as well give it up, Yamaha doesn't want to, and they aren't going to build snowmobiles. They made that decision many years ago, and deliberately mislead us into to believing that they would build a "all new, all Yamaha" snowmobile! That is not going to happen, as you said, if it was going to be, it would have happened by now!

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    That's just embarrassing...they are done. Glad I work at a Ski doo dealer, and will be riding ski doos. As an old yamaha guy, I am saddened to see this. A rebadged blast (enticer), and alpha one 800 called the "mountain max"...so you get an , low powered 800 (compared to the 850s), with a long in the tooth, cat chassis....PATHETIC!!! I feel bad for all the OLD loyal yammy guys who have waited year, after year, after year for an "ALL YAMAHA" Sled. This says alot about the direction they are headed (and CAT as well)...Apparently the big brass in Japan, have had enough with snowmobiles (the lack of effort shows this).

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    So ummmm Yamaha released their 2021?'s. When did this go down?

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    Quote Originally Posted by timo View Post
    So ummmm Yamaha released their 2021?'s. When did this go down?
    Today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    You might as well give it up, Yamaha doesn't want to, and they aren't going to build snowmobiles. They made that decision many years ago, and deliberately mislead us into to believing that they would build a "all new, all Yamaha" snowmobile! That is not going to happen, as you said, if it was going to be, it would have happened by now!
    I'm not a big Yamaha loyalists. I haven't been waiting for their next "Yamaha" sled other then it would be good for the loyalist to have new "Yamaha" metal. I ride with a few Yamaha loyalist and can empathize with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    Today.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I'm not a big Yamaha loyalists. I haven't been waiting for their next "Yamaha" sled other then it would be good for the loyalist to have new "Yamaha" metal. I ride with a few Yamaha loyalist and can empathize with them.
    It is disgraceful in the least, the way they deliberately mislead so many into waiting for the new Yamaha. I waited until I smelled a ruse. If they don't value their customers any better than the have now shown, I would not own one anyway now. I can remember when they were the leader in sleds.

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    Not that people aren't stupid, but with the access to information these days why would anyone pay more for the name? I suppose the same can be said for some automotive stuff, but there isn't a clear bump in accessories, add-ons, etc. that would justify a price difference. Good thing my Viper only has 900 miles and will last me another 10 years! Also does it seem their target is big in Canada and outside of Midwest? I get an odd feeling when I watch the promotional vids and stuff

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    Quote Originally Posted by SledTL View Post
    Not that people aren't stupid, but with the access to information these days why would anyone pay more for the name? I suppose the same can be said for some automotive stuff, but there isn't a clear bump in accessories, add-ons, etc. that would justify a price difference. Good thing my Viper only has 900 miles and will last me another 10 years! Also does it seem their target is big in Canada and outside of Midwest? I get an odd feeling when I watch the promotional vids and stuff
    Yamaha North American sled headquarters now in Canada I believe. Yamaha seriously started the 4 stroke sled market, and they walked away from it.

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    10 posts, in over 2 hours (that's how many people are interested in, an outdated rebadged cat)...maybe the Yamaha guys are on the phone with their Ski Doo and Polaris dealers spring ordering new sleds???

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    Quote Originally Posted by SledTL View Post
    Not that people aren't stupid, but with the access to information these days why would anyone pay more for the name? I suppose the same can be said for some automotive stuff, but there isn't a clear bump in accessories, add-ons, etc. that would justify a price difference. Good thing my Viper only has 900 miles and will last me another 10 years! Also does it seem their target is big in Canada and outside of Midwest? I get an odd feeling when I watch the promotional vids and stuff
    You do see a ton of them up there. Our group noticed that this season.

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    I was hoping for a surprise but Oh well. Still buying a Sidewinder this year. Bash me all you want.

    No more 2 strokes for me. Been there done that. Plus they cost as much if not more than 4 strokes nowadays.
    Yeah 4 strokes are heavy when manually moving them. But I like the longevity and not carrying oil.
    And that smell on my clothes. Done with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    You do see a ton of them up there. Our group noticed that this season.
    Just looking around at pit stops, motels and on the trail, I see an equal amount of sleds from all four manufacturers. It is hard for me to tell who is #1, #2, #3 or #4 just by eyeballing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbide View Post
    I was hoping for a surprise but Oh well. Still buying a Sidewinder this year. Bash me all you want.

    No more 2 strokes for me. Been there done that. Plus they cost as much if not more than 4 strokes nowadays.
    Yeah 4 strokes are heavy when manually moving them. But I like the longevity and not carrying oil.
    And that smell on my clothes. Done with that.
    Not all 4 strokes are heavy. Attak man found this out, and he was a Yamaha guy thru, and thru! Many more have now also

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    Quote Originally Posted by Attak man View Post
    10 posts, in over 2 hours (that's how many people are interested in, an outdated rebadged cat)...maybe the Yamaha guys are on the phone with their Ski Doo and Polaris dealers spring ordering new sleds???
    I’m one of them. From 2002 thru 2013 I purchased 14 Yamaha sleds. I’ve been waiting for an apex replacement for years. Experimented with a 2015 viper and have had nothing but problems with it. Had to tow my son home for the first time in my life in January. I fixed it and now it’s for sale. I’m now going to spring order a Doo. I’ve owned 2 Doo’s in the past when my son was first starting out in the sport and Yamaha didn’t have lower powered 550 fan cooled type sled so I went with Doo. Upgraded him to an 600 HO MXZ and he loved that sled. I’m Tired of waiting and heading over to DOO. I’m happy with what I see with BRP and believe it’s the right move.

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    Your gonna love it Carbide. I'm a 4 stroke guy as well and nothing comes close to the sidewinders power...nothing! The haters will hate but none of them will line it up with you. Just one piece of advise do an LE or up for the better shock package. My winder is a LE with QS3r's and it rides awesome, even my viper has QS3's and it rides great as well. If another mfg makes a better 4 stroke than the winder then I might jump ship but, still looking. No the BRP 900t is not it....sorry duck fans!

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    Sorry guys. Wish it was more pleasing to many of you, but I do understand.

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    @snoden700viper

    Do you have issues with the electronically adjustable suspension? I am a little nervous about the wiring under there when ice chunks form. I would like the QS3s as well.
    Is it an option to upgrade a L-TX SE to those shocks? I really prefer the colors of the 2021 SE over the LE...

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    Yamaha brought the first HI PERFORMANCE and still the best and most powerful 4 strokes in the snowmobile industry.
    Cat has a GREAT chassis.
    Yamahas intro of PS should have been a revolution to the snowmobiling community.
    Instead....manufacturers want us to pay 1000's for some unneeded BS 7" laptop stuck in the console......That is effed up and might end the sport due to overpricing the market to the point of leaving it in the hands of the elitists....LOL....whats this post driver thingy spose to do?...where be da screen?

    I think every sled in the market could benefit from a simple PS unit to compensate for all the different snow conditions we ride on. It isn't just about weight. Too bad the industry is so driven by the SM commentary. PS seems condemned for life because it was first used on a Yamaha Apex which some in the SM community has successfully badged as an unrideable tank....smh

    IMHO My wife is a professional snowmobiler. 50,000 miles on snow....probly more. 40,000 on Yamaha 4 strokes. 12,000 on her latest a PS Apex.
    Last trip out the Apex exhaust got loud enough that we sent it to the garage and she was forced to ride the 18 ProS for 400 miles to complete our awesome weekend/season.
    Being a pro, she adapted to it quickly and at the end of the first days 50 mile leg she already was saying positive things about it like the power was similar, it felt light, BUT in the end she still said she missed the PS of her Apex.

    Did I hear that Ski Doo put some sort of a PS unit on their Sno-X sleds?....HMMMM?

    To you Doo guys in this thread that is all giggly about Yamacats not meeting your expectations.....why are you Doo guys all so insecure about your own sled choices to the point you'd kick a manny when it looks to be down already?....We are down to 3.5 mannys. ..

    I can just here you clowns if an when it is down to just 2.....Acting sad with false concern.
    Last edited by snobuilder; 03-09-2020 at 06:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    Sorry guys. Wish it was more pleasing to many of you, but I do understand.
    It would be interesting to know what the dealers are feeling. I am sure Yamaha knows the situation.

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    Snobuilder...I quit letting yamaha disappoint me 3 years ago...they dont build what i want...I could give two shizzles about a yamaha badged cat built 2 stroke....the whole reason to buy yamahas is their engines...and the Apex was the best...period...and yes the power steering worked awesome...I loved it...I wish ski doo would put their dps on the grand touring, and 4 stroke enduro models.
    But let's get real honest here...the Apex chassis, and suspension are nowhere near as good as a ski doo, Polaris or cat...Sidewinders are faster, and ride far better than ANY apex...they were a buckboard wagon with lousy skis...yeah..great engine, and the Eps was a really good idea on a heavier sled....I loved my 2011 xtx...until I rode the xs, and gen 4 ski doo 900s (and 1200 in both xs and xr chassis)....neither had the top end of the apex...but both out ride the apex so bad its silly..its no comparison ...and the 900 turbo, is perfect for those guys looking to replace their apex...many of us want to stay in that 150 to 160 hp range, and dont need 205 hp...the 900 turbo is the "better apex"...we sold alot of those to yamaha guys, and I can tell you the mass exodus will continue with this line up.
    Apex guys (like me) ...fell in love with the 4 stroke power.
    And right now ski doo is the only option.....yamaha could easily go toe to toe with ski doo if they wanted to, and build an n/a 998, and a low boost 998 (160 hp range) ....add eps, and better gauges in a new chassis, with competent suspensions, and they'd get alot of their old customers back. ...right now...if you like lighter weight 4 strokes, that ride and handle excellent...its ski doo...period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbide View Post
    @snoden700viper

    Do you have issues with the electronically adjustable suspension? I am a little nervous about the wiring under there when ice chunks form. I would like the QS3s as well.
    Is it an option to upgrade a L-TX SE to those shocks? I really prefer the colors of the 2021 SE over the LE...
    My winder is an 18 and does not have the IQS shock package. Kinda wish I had it though as I like the idea of switching compression on the fly. Following the TY crowd it seems to be pretty reliable for 2 years now after its release. I've seen a few that had a module issue but it doesn't keep you from riding. It sets the package into the medium setting until the module is replaced. I get the color scheme your after and if that fits you that's what you should do. You can upgrade shocks anytime just not from Yamaha during spring power surge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snoden700viper View Post
    My winder is an 18 and does not have the IQS shock package. Kinda wish I had it though as I like the idea of switching compression on the fly. Following the TY crowd it seems to be pretty reliable for 2 years now after its release. I've seen a few that had a module issue but it doesn't keep you from riding. It sets the package into the medium setting until the module is replaced. I get the color scheme your after and if that fits you that's what you should do. You can upgrade shocks anytime just not from Yamaha during spring power surge.
    You are wrong. When the module fails it does not go to the middle setting. It stays where it was set last.

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    I can't engage who is better. and I won't. They all have positives and negatives. What's better is in the eyes of the beholder and what's most important to he or she. I'm not thrilled that Yamaha has a joint venture with Cat being a true blu Yamaha guy. I always enjoyed all 4 manny's having their own product. It's not fun but right now it is what it is. We have sold a ton of Vipers and Sidewinders so I can't say it's been a failure. Do I think we're a lot long in the tooth, yes! Yamaha and Cat are two different companies and operate totally different. Right now it's working for Yamaha so they're sticking with it, and no I don't like it anymore than the die hard Yammy guys and gals. I don't believe it will stay this way forever no matter what the negative nelly's think, but I do think plenty of positive will come from this for both companies in the end. Nothing lasts forever. Just sit back and enjoy that there are still 4 brands involved. To say one is better than the other is just foolish in my opinion. I have plenty of Yamaha action for snowcheck in a short period of time since the 2021 release. All 4 have something to offer snowmobilers. Then we talk price. Yes, prices are high but let's take a look. The big MSRP prices are never what anyone pays. If prices get high is because it's either a snowcheck only model or someone builds a new one with a bunch of extras! Sidewinders sold as cheap as they ever have this year! So go buy a sled and then a year or two later look at the extras you've added to it and then add it up. Bet we would all be pretty astonished! LOL! Build your own snowcheck will never be cheap if you build it just the way you want it right out of the gate. Polaris was very smart to take this approach and don't think for a minute they're not doing this to feel out the market. They've done it with side by side way before sleds. Polaris is still continuing to do it with the Razor and so is Can Am. They're going to keep coming up with streamline pimped out models just to see what the consumer is willing to pay! It's similar to a mountain lion sighting in the U.P. Yes, we see them on game cameras right? The DNR denies it. HMMM.... We all call them dumb.... Really, are they? Wonder what happens to hunting if certain people find out they exist in the U.P.? My point is everything isn't always what it seems. Many times there is a motive behind what they're doing and we don't give the powers to be credit for it. Other times, the powers that be are wrong!! LOL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    You are wrong. When the module fails it does not go to the middle setting. It stays where it was set last.
    Well crap Grub I guess the guys that have one and had a module fail are lying then. Either way it doesn't keep one from riding. As I stated mine does not have the IQS shock package and also stated that following the TY crowd in regards to those that do have the IQS shock package.

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    I personally want to see all four Manufacturers successful and even more if another company wanted to jump into the ring. The more the merrier. More competition benefits all of us. Can you image if we all had to ride the same sled? I don't think anyone would want that.

    Snobuilder, I'm not sure if you are referring to me with the comment "kick a manny when it looks to be down already". If so, I'm not kicking any manufacturer. As I stated above, I would like all manufacturers to be successful...benefiting all of us. What I will say is that I'm disappointed to not have a Yamaha sled to pick from. Sorry, the Yamicat is NOT a Yamaha through and through. The only sled out of 16 sleds I have bought since 2002 that ever had any mechanical issues was the Yamicat with the chain case. the only sled that ever broke down on the trail was the Yamicat (2015 Viper). I'm very disappointed I don't have an apex XTX replacement option within the Yamaha lineup. But, I'm moving on because thankfully I have other options. My son is spring ordering a Renegade XRS 850 etec this year and I will probably spring order an 900T the next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snoden700viper View Post
    Well crap Grub I guess the guys that have one and had a module fail are lying then. Either way it doesn't keep one from riding. As I stated mine does not have the IQS shock package and also stated that following the TY crowd in regards to those that do have the IQS shock package.
    They are not lying. They are just too dumb to know the difference. Of course you can still ride it. It isn't going to explode. It will just flash the annoying code the whole time you are riding.

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    When it fails it does not have power. If it has no power it is not going to have the power to return it to the medium setting or anywhere else. It stays where it was last set. It is a horrible system in that it fails regularly and the parts to fix it are backordered until May. A person is much better off with QSR3rs. Then you get rebound damping too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    When it fails it does not have power. If it has no power it is not going to have the power to return it to the medium setting or anywhere else. It stays where it was last set. It is a horrible system in that it fails regularly and the parts to fix it are backordered until May. A person is much better off with QSR3rs. Then you get rebound damping too.
    I ride with a guy that it has iced up and broke 2 times. He rode this year without it because it broke early in the season. Not a durable high mile set up

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    Quote Originally Posted by harvest1121 View Post
    I ride with a guy that it has iced up and broke 2 times. He rode this year without it because it broke early in the season. Not a durable high mile set up
    Interesting, what went? How many miles? I didn't have any problems with mine this year. I also did not put a heck of a lot of miles on either this year. About 650 miles.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    Interesting, what went? How many miles? I didn't have any problems with mine this year. I also did not put a heck of a lot of miles on either this year. About 650 miles.
    He has about 9000 on it was broke within 2000 miles this year. IT was warrantied before the season could see it collecting ice on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harvest1121 View Post
    He has about 9000 on it was broke within 2000 miles this year. IT was warrantied before the season could see it collecting ice on it.
    Where did it build up and break? Just curious, something to watch for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfattack View Post
    I personally want to see all four Manufacturers successful and even more if another company wanted to jump into the ring. The more the merrier. More competition benefits all of us. Can you image if we all had to ride the same sled? I don't think anyone would want that.

    Snobuilder, I'm not sure if you are referring to me with the comment "kick a manny when it looks to be down already". If so, I'm not kicking any manufacturer. As I stated above, I would like all manufacturers to be successful...benefiting all of us. What I will say is that I'm disappointed to not have a Yamaha sled to pick from. Sorry, the Yamicat is NOT a Yamaha through and through. The only sled out of 16 sleds I have bought since 2002 that ever had any mechanical issues was the Yamicat with the chain case. the only sled that ever broke down on the trail was the Yamicat (2015 Viper). I'm very disappointed I don't have an apex XTX replacement option within the Yamaha lineup. But, I'm moving on because thankfully I have other options. My son is spring ordering a Renegade XRS 850 etec this year and I will probably spring order an 900T the next year.
    Dfattack and I ride together with other Yamaha brand faithful and we all realized at some point we would want and need to move on to another brand since the Viper was not enough ponies and the SW was way too much hp for high mile trail riders. Mr tree made my decision for me mid 2019. Do I repair a high milage 2012 Apex xtx or do I move on to another 4s. I chose to move on to the doo 900t Enduro. Dfattack and others rode my Enduro and liked it a whole lot better than they thought they would. The current OEM relationship between Yamaha and Textron never blossomed and produced a leading edge snowmobile platform from the ground up engines and chassis and is stuck on dual branded exact duplicate sleds. Blue or green is the choice and the Yamaha msrp is much higher. I’m embarrassed since I was a Yamaha faithful customer who always thought this is the year Yamaha will show their expertise and surprise everyone with a new 4s/2s sled. Like old Abe I don’t believe it is ever going to happen. We have 3 OEMs and and a 4s engines supplier for a old in the tooth Textron chassis. It is what it is in an overall shrinking marketplace. It’s sad but it is what it is. Other than dealer preference why buy a Yamaha when you can purchase a pure AC 2s sled from AC? SW or Thunder Cat why not the TC? As said before nothing lasts forever so the purebred seems to me to be the safer purchase. I sincerely hope Yamaha will get back in the snowmobile manufacturing with their own pure Yamaha product BUT to be honest I think it’s over. That’s my 2 cents and my opinion and it’s sad to post it but I’m not a sugar coater it is what it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    . I can remember when they were the leader in sleds.
    way back when your screen name was just abe

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    still no track options for a spring order....like a 1.25 ice ripper or 1.5 ice ripper...or did I miss that

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    Don't get me wrong...I always like the mutual agreement...Cat makes a fine chassis, and suspension. ...the sidewinder engine is awesome, and the 1050 has been a stellar motor (minus the starting issues with Cat's calibration).
    But simply rebadging an M series cat, painting it blue, and calling it a "Mountain Max" is almost a sin to me...I bought a 2001 700 Mountain max from Pat's (if you look waaaaaay back when, on John's Journals from 2001-2002, you can see that very sled busting powder in the keweenaw with John)...it was an amazing sled that never let me down...I put over 5,000 miles on her that winter (the most I have ever done on ANY sled)...so that sled is near and dear to my heart, and I find it almost sac religious to rebadge a cat, and use that name. I think the Venom/blast will be good little sleds...but they are over priced for what you get...you can get the new FI Doo 600 for almost the same price..so why would you buy a 60 HP single cylinder? Like I said earlier I'm fine with the cat yamaha agreement...but why not make a 998 N/A with Eps, and go toe to toe with ski-doo...it's healthy for the industry.

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    LOL
    that a good one.


    Quote Originally Posted by ezra View Post
    way back when your screen name was just abe

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    Quote Originally Posted by ezra View Post
    way back when your screen name was just abe
    Yeah, well that's pretty much it! A friend and I grass dragged a GPX 433 F/A. A real "featherlight".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Attak man View Post
    Don't get me wrong...I always like the mutual agreement...Cat makes a fine chassis, and suspension. ...the sidewinder engine is awesome, and the 1050 has been a stellar motor (minus the starting issues with Cat's calibration).
    But simply rebadging an M series cat, painting it blue, and calling it a "Mountain Max" is almost a sin to me...I bought a 2001 700 Mountain max from Pat's (if you look waaaaaay back when, on John's Journals from 2001-2002, you can see that very sled busting powder in the keweenaw with John)...it was an amazing sled that never let me down...I put over 5,000 miles on her that winter (the most I have ever done on ANY sled)...so that sled is near and dear to my heart, and I find it almost sac religious to rebadge a cat, and use that name. I think the Venom/blast will be good little sleds...but they are over priced for what you get...you can get the new FI Doo 600 for almost the same price..so why would you buy a 60 HP single cylinder? Like I said earlier I'm fine with the cat yamaha agreement...but why not make a 998 N/A with Eps, and go toe to toe with ski-doo...it's healthy for the industry.
    I agree if Yamaha had partnered with Textron to integrate eps in the Viper 4s, SW and TC I think many Yamaha faithful would have said ok lots of Cat DNA here but Yamaha did contribute the eps and their outstanding 4s engines. Well that never happened and probably won’t. I would have considered a SW with eps more hp than I need but only eps model available if it had happened. Why that didn’t happen is very puzzling and disappointing to me. Oh well it’s in Da past and onward with what’s available now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitedust View Post
    I agree if Yamaha had partnered with Textron to integrate eps in the Viper 4s, SW and TC I think many Yamaha faithful would have said ok lots of Cat DNA here but Yamaha did contribute the eps and their outstanding 4s engines. Well that never happened and probably won’t. I would have considered a SW with eps more hp than I need but only eps model available if it had happened. Why that didn’t happen is very puzzling and disappointing to me. Oh well it’s in Da past and onward with what’s available now.
    SW Yama/Cat engine/chassis not "designed" as to be together. Nor is the Viper. Both are "shoehorned kits" that was "just" barley doable. Needed room all but nonexistent. Yamaha's engine downfall is there weight. As not a "specific application" design, no way around it.

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    Some good info on Yamahas decisions on the AC partnership.

    https://youtu.be/BT3wXC3hnNA

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    You might as well give it up, Yamaha doesn't want to, and they aren't going to build snowmobiles. They made that decision many years ago, and deliberately mislead us into to believing that they would build a "all new, all Yamaha" snowmobile! That is not going to happen, as you said, if it was going to be, it would have happened by now!
    I have to agree with the Cat continuation with A/C.
    Was in TRF last two days and every other person you talk to works at A/C or a family member does.
    Two days in TRF chatting here and chatter tells me A/C NEEDS the business arrangement the way it is.
    Employees and locals hear and hope it continues status-quo.
    There is only 8,500ish people in TRF and most either work at A/C or Digi-Key..thats it.

    Sidebar..
    One cool thing, you can ride your sled to work, trail goes right on property. Even the business I went to staff can ride sleds too work.

    Looks like they had open trails until a week ago, still a good base but need snow.


    Bear

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    I dont think the marriage is bad, Besides SXS's the power sports industry is not doing well. Look at Suzuki, they have scaled way back

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    Quote Originally Posted by harvest1121 View Post
    Well not buying anything my 2017 Viper will be fine. 18k for a Sidewinder they can keep them.
    So buy a slightly used one...I did...1 yr old for 1/2 that...less than 1100 mi...that's barely broken in...

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    https://www.snowtechmagazine.com/202...ha-first-ride/

    "They did recognize how their four-stroke sleds were not what the mountain sled market was asking for, and responded. Now their dealers and brand faithful will have Yamaha branded sleds to ride and sell, with the support of the Yamaha dealer network and the Yamaha brand. While some might look at the product offerings and see little more than blue paint on sleds built by Arctic Cat, the company behind the blue sleds is very different, as is the marketing strategy and message. In fact, with the drastic reduction of the number of Arctic Cat dealers across the snow belt it would not surprise us to see some buyers who used to be team green switch over to team blue. Given the choice, many will come to the conclusion that team blue will do a better job at taking care of them as consumers, be it product support, parts availability, or likelihood of being here in ten years. They are all valid considerations. In a sense, as we are watching team green fade away we might be seeing team blue growing at their expense. Funny how things work out sometimes. Come back to Yamaha."


    Don't have a dog in the fight but I thought this was interesting... Poor cat guys...

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    https://www.snowtechmagazine.com/202...ha-first-ride/

    "They did recognize how their four-stroke sleds were not what the mountain sled market was asking for, and responded. Now their dealers and brand faithful will have Yamaha branded sleds to ride and sell, with the support of the Yamaha dealer network and the Yamaha brand. While some might look at the product offerings and see little more than blue paint on sleds built by Arctic Cat, the company behind the blue sleds is very different, as is the marketing strategy and message. In fact, with the drastic reduction of the number of Arctic Cat dealers across the snow belt it would not surprise us to see some buyers who used to be team green switch over to team blue. Given the choice, many will come to the conclusion that team blue will do a better job at taking care of them as consumers, be it product support, parts availability, or likelihood of being here in ten years. They are all valid considerations. In a sense, as we are watching team green fade away we might be seeing team blue growing at their expense. Funny how things work out sometimes. Come back to Yamaha."


    Don't have a dog in the fight but I thought this was interesting... Poor cat guys...
    I also found that to be a very telling quote..I do think Yamaha has a better warranty program than Cat does...I guess we shall see...Textron doesn't seem all that interested in the snowmobile line...very interesting indeed.

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    Wow, that's a pretty scathing comment on Cat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitedust View Post
    Dfattack and I ride together with other Yamaha brand faithful and we all realized at some point we would want and need to move on to another brand since the Viper was not enough ponies and the SW was way too much hp for high mile trail riders. Mr tree made my decision for me mid 2019. Do I repair a high milage 2012 Apex xtx or do I move on to another 4s. I chose to move on to the doo 900t Enduro. Dfattack and others rode my Enduro and liked it a whole lot better than they thought they would. The current OEM relationship between Yamaha and Textron never blossomed and produced a leading edge snowmobile platform from the ground up engines and chassis and is stuck on dual branded exact duplicate sleds. Blue or green is the choice and the Yamaha msrp is much higher. I’m embarrassed since I was a Yamaha faithful customer who always thought this is the year Yamaha will show their expertise and surprise everyone with a new 4s/2s sled. Like old Abe I don’t believe it is ever going to happen. We have 3 OEMs and and a 4s engines supplier for a old in the tooth Textron chassis. It is what it is in an overall shrinking marketplace. It’s sad but it is what it is. Other than dealer preference why buy a Yamaha when you can purchase a pure AC 2s sled from AC? SW or Thunder Cat why not the TC? As said before nothing lasts forever so the purebred seems to me to be the safer purchase. I sincerely hope Yamaha will get back in the snowmobile manufacturing with their own pure Yamaha product BUT to be honest I think it’s over. That’s my 2 cents and my opinion and it’s sad to post it but I’m not a sugar coater it is what it is.
    so true !!!! i'm embarrassed too

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    https://www.snowtechmagazine.com/202...ha-first-ride/

    "They did recognize how their four-stroke sleds were not what the mountain sled market was asking for, and responded. Now their dealers and brand faithful will have Yamaha branded sleds to ride and sell, with the support of the Yamaha dealer network and the Yamaha brand. While some might look at the product offerings and see little more than blue paint on sleds built by Arctic Cat, the company behind the blue sleds is very different, as is the marketing strategy and message. In fact, with the drastic reduction of the number of Arctic Cat dealers across the snow belt it would not surprise us to see some buyers who used to be team green switch over to team blue. Given the choice, many will come to the conclusion that team blue will do a better job at taking care of them as consumers, be it product support, parts availability, or likelihood of being here in ten years. They are all valid considerations. In a sense, as we are watching team green fade away we might be seeing team blue growing at their expense. Funny how things work out sometimes. Come back to Yamaha."


    Don't have a dog in the fight but I thought this was interesting... Poor cat guys...
    Yeah, well, I can maybe buy into that somewhat being so. However, there well maybe a lot fewer AC sled dealers as of now, but Yamaha snowmobile dealers are all but nonexistent! The last 4 to 5 years wiped them out! Yamaha not building their so called, "all new, all Yamaha" sled, but continually blowing out pure BS about it, screwed the Yamaha sled buyers, but by not doing what they said they would do, killed the Yamaha sled dealers. Stuck with multi years of left over stock. How did that work out? It didn't! You can only screw your customer base so far, and they leave, being done with you. Once they are gone, they most likely won't be back. Stick a fork in it, it's done. Sad to see, but so it is.

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    Textron will put Arctic Cat snowmobile division up for sale, Yamaha will buy it, Yamaha stays, Cat disappears.
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

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    im hoping for a power steering srx sidewinder some day
    then i will give up my apex's

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    One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is the diversity of the Yamaha product. Their dealers, without selling snowmobiles, do sell a host of other items like boats, watercraft, cycles, atv's and generators. They make or sell just about every musical instrument on earth. (Yeah, I know you can't ride a keyboard at 80 miles an hour.) We have one of their Waverunners, a great engine and all around fun machine on the water. Yamaha is putting their resources into products that sell, simple as that. Their snowmobiles are/were fine but the ROI just wasn't there for that large of investment. JMHO

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    You guys are TOO funny...1st off yamadog chose CATS chassis because it is superior to what they had....and hands down easier to repair if it takes a hit...not to mention the break away IWS that Bobby unser designed....its cheaper and better for the warranty dept. And can make the heavier engines of yamadog ride really good on trails...and they are taking a loss (as a once yami man meself till I wised up) when owners have to wait 3 months for parts...and most all mountain machines need at least 10,000 dollars of upgrades to keep up with any other brand....glad I dont own a yamadog any more....who needs a can of rivets for there old yami chassis I can send em to ya for free....ROTFLMAO

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    It all boils down to what you want. Right? If a manufacturer doesn't make what you want you buy what trips your trigger.
    I'm willing to work on my "Yamaha" sidewinder to fix Cats shortcomings because it has the best snowmobile engine ever made. For those who say it's too heavy, etc, If you ride with me I will tell you where I'm going, and wait for you to get there......

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    And then your alarm clock rang

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    Quote Originally Posted by Interceptor View Post
    It all boils down to what you want. Right? If a manufacturer doesn't make what you want you buy what trips your trigger.
    I'm willing to work on my "Yamaha" sidewinder to fix Cats shortcomings because it has the best snowmobile engine ever made. For those who say it's too heavy, etc, If you ride with me I will tell you where I'm going, and wait for you to get there......
    Haaaaahaaaahahhhahahhaaaaahaaaaahaaaahaaaahhaaaaaa aahhh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    Textron will put Arctic Cat snowmobile division up for sale, Yamaha will buy it, Yamaha stays, Cat disappears.
    Nope. TRF planning big expansion. To build 4 wheelers. All the sled guys are gone. The guys that made batteryless we efi are gone. The guys that made the firecat are gone. Kirk and Tucker Hibbert are gone. Doo and Pol are all that's left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    Textron will put Arctic Cat snowmobile division up for sale, Yamaha will buy it, Yamaha stays, Cat disappears.
    You must have missed the memo by Kennedy the president of AC he came out after Haydays held a press conference and announced AC snow division is NOT for sale and I highly doubt Yamaha is interested in buying the snow division. Textron and Yamaha have an evergreen OEM agreement just keeps rolling over probably with some tweaks here and there. Anybody that thinks a purebred Japanese sled will be developed is in dreamland not in the plans not enough market share to fund the ROI and Jared the Yamaha public face rep has said exactly that on TY. Game over Yamacats are here to stay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    Textron will put Arctic Cat snowmobile division up for sale, Yamaha will buy it, Yamaha stays, Cat disappears.
    That my friend, is a bad bet! Textron/AC has a lot of different engine production capability now. Long term, they will use it.

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    It boils down to selling a product that is limited to about 16 states, plus a few countries in a small market as is. Weather really is starting to change the sport rather you want to agree or not, its just how it is. What I struggle to understand is why not take one of the smaller ATV engines and make something to compete with the ACE 900. We shoehorned a sportsman 570 into a switchback axys for the SAE challenge, so its possible to do. That would be my move if I was aware of my cross vehicle usage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    https://www.snowtechmagazine.com/202...ha-first-ride/

    "They did recognize how their four-stroke sleds were not what the mountain sled market was asking for, and responded. Now their dealers and brand faithful will have Yamaha branded sleds to ride and sell, with the support of the Yamaha dealer network and the Yamaha brand. While some might look at the product offerings and see little more than blue paint on sleds built by Arctic Cat, the company behind the blue sleds is very different, as is the marketing strategy and message. In fact, with the drastic reduction of the number of Arctic Cat dealers across the snow belt it would not surprise us to see some buyers who used to be team green switch over to team blue. Given the choice, many will come to the conclusion that team blue will do a better job at taking care of them as consumers, be it product support, parts availability, or likelihood of being here in ten years. They are all valid considerations. In a sense, as we are watching team green fade away we might be seeing team blue growing at their expense. Funny how things work out sometimes. Come back to Yamaha."


    Don't have a dog in the fight but I thought this was interesting... Poor cat guys...
    Might be all true but snowtech has not been happy with textron - makes you wonder if they lost some ad dollars or access to free sleds to ride from them. I subscribe and like reading it but the internet has all but killed it - not much new info in it anymore.

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    I am a little late to the party, but agree, am disappointed. Right now I own 2 Yamaha sleds, 2 outboards and an ATV. The two sleds are both vipers. I like them, but they are no where near the quality of the phazer, nytro or Apex's I have owned. To be honest, every time I need to work on them I have cuss words. I didn't with the other sleds, and certainly don't with my other Yamaha products. It is enough of a difference I am "looking" at other brands, but it won't be cat, that is for sure. I really hope the blue badge stays in the market. it will be good for all of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjb View Post
    I am a little late to the party, but agree, am disappointed. Right now I own 2 Yamaha sleds, 2 outboards and an ATV. The two sleds are both vipers. I like them, but they are no where near the quality of the phazer, nytro or Apex's I have owned. To be honest, every time I need to work on them I have cuss words. I didn't with the other sleds, and certainly don't with my other Yamaha products. It is enough of a difference I am "looking" at other brands, but it won't be cat, that is for sure. I really hope the blue badge stays in the market. it will be good for all of us.
    I used a cuss word or 2 when replacing FE bushings, exhaust donuts, mono shock remote cables.
    Apex oil filter
    ....etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    I used a cuss word or 2 when replacing FE bushings, exhaust donuts, mono shock remote cables.
    Apex oil filter
    ....etc
    Touche - especially the exhaust donuts. But once replaced with the copper ones, never had to replace again. And most of mine were done under warrantee.

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    Everyone always says what they think about Yamaha but here is almost 50,0000 miles these and never been towed in. yam.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tracker View Post
    And then your alarm clock rang
    good reply :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by harvest1121 View Post
    Everyone always says what they think about Yamaha but here is almost 50,0000 miles these and never been towed in. yam.jpg
    Nice! That matters to some of us. Me in particular. One time in my life did I have a breakdown on the trail. Yamicat Viper...go figure

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    Wow, if breakdowns will move you to another brand, what do I do then? I had Polaris, Ski-doo, Yamaha and Arctic Cat sleds all breakdown on me on the trail. Where is John Deere?

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    Wow, if breakdowns will move you to another brand, what do I do then? I had Polaris, Ski-doo, Yamaha and Arctic Cat sleds all breakdown on me on the trail. Where is John Deere?
    You're only 40 years behind time!

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    Quote Originally Posted by xsledder View Post
    Wow, if breakdowns will move you to another brand, what do I do then? I had Polaris, Ski-doo, Yamaha and Arctic Cat sleds all breakdown on me on the trail. Where is John Deere?
    If they were modern era sleds, you should probably review your sled maintaining abilities. lol

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    Does anyone know when Yamaha will release their 2022 models????

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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_junior View Post
    Does anyone know when Yamaha will release their 2022 models????
    In about 360 days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_junior View Post
    Does anyone know when Yamaha will release their 2022 models????
    It's possible that, that might not happen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    It's possible that, that might not happen?
    True very much up to Textron...Yamaha obviously likes the current state of affairs and their distribution network helps distribute the sleds at no cost to Textron. When the arrangement is no longer profitable at target levels Yamaha stops rebranding sleds. I suspect more of the same Yamacats in the foreseeable future. So imo about a year to next release.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vic_junior View Post
    does anyone know when yamaha will release their 2022 models????
    when **** freezes over !!!!! :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by dothedoo View Post
    If they were modern era sleds, you should probably review your sled maintaining abilities. lol
    Hmm, interesting point. But then again, how much maintenance does a voltage regulator require on a Ski-doo less then two years old and under 3,000 miles?

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    Face it....who wouldn't have at least 1 SRX Turbo in the trailer if they could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    Face it....who wouldn't have at least 1 SRX Turbo in the trailer if they could.
    ?????????????????????????????????????

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    You do see a ton of them up there. Our group noticed that this season.
    Actually a ton of Sidewinders only amounts to three sleds.

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    Just was bored and looking at new Harleys. Made feel better about snowmobile prices. I have a 2014 Ultra Classic with 29,000 miles. Since 2015 I have 25,000 miles on snowmobiles think I need another snowmobile next year or find a nice used Yamaha with a 5 year warranty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by harvest1121 View Post
    Just was bored and looking at new Harleys. Made feel better about snowmobile prices. I have a 2014 Ultra Classic with 29,000 miles. Since 2015 I have 25,000 miles on snowmobiles think I need another snowmobile next year or find a nice used Yamaha with a 5 year warranty.
    It is your lucky day. I will sell you my '18 anniversary LE Winder with 2 years of warranty left . I am going over to the dark side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    It is your lucky day. I will sell you my '18 anniversary LE Winder with 2 years of warranty left . I am going over to the dark side.
    Excellent idea!

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    Face it....who wouldn't have at least 1 SRX Turbo in the trailer if they could.
    I wouldn't want one....I certainly don't miss carrying extra belts or rebuilding my vmax crank 3 times a season....or waiting for parts for months....the only reliable yamadog were the older ones like phasers and such....not to mention it took 15 years for them to give consumers shock absorbers instead of pogo sticks.....LMAO

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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    It is your lucky day. I will sell you my '18 anniversary LE Winder with 2 years of warranty left . I am going over to the dark side.
    So if you own one, why all the negative Yamaha comments over the years?
    Including today with the 20 ? marks.

    Maybe your level of humor is even better than I know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tracker View Post
    I wouldn't want one....I certainly don't miss carrying extra belts or rebuilding my vmax crank 3 times a season....or waiting for parts for months....the only reliable yamadog were the older ones like phasers and such....not to mention it took 15 years for them to give consumers shock absorbers instead of pogo sticks.....LMAO
    Yes you would....it's 92% of the speed of light....figured you of all ppl would understand that.
    Last edited by snobuilder; 03-15-2020 at 07:59 PM.

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    I know dozens of guys with Sidewinders. Many of them have had thousands of trouble free miles.
    The only ones that I know of that have had issues are the ones that are tuned way above what the engineers designed them to do.

    I am ordering a 2021 Sidewinder with confidence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carbide View Post
    I know dozens of guys with Sidewinders. Many of them have had thousands of trouble free miles.
    The only ones that I know of that have had issues are the ones that are tuned way above what the engineers designed them to do.

    I am ordering a 2021 Sidewinder with confidence.
    Super sleds, problem like with all sleds is the 17k Sidewinder will be 12.5k in February.

    Bear

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1fujifilm View Post
    Super sleds, problem like with all sleds is the 17k Sidewinder will be 12.5k in February.

    Bear
    Lol. Anybody that buys a snowmobile as an investment is just crazy.

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    Yup I own one. I even waited until the second year of production. Still didn't do enough research.
    The engine itself will last for 20000 miles. Just like any other Yami. The rest of the sled not so much. First thing I did was take off the stock skis and put on AC skis. There is not even ten feet of wear on the stickers. Did not like the AC skis either even after trying many combinations of carbides. After much research went with Mohawks with most aggressive carbide they offer. I don't run studs and they are just right. If I had any studs they would also push. Added BOP belt guard so when belt blew it would not take out belly pan. This is important because if you do take out the belly pan you are done for the year because there are no replacement parts on this continent. This also goes for chaincase parts. The chaincase is a flawed design that is prone to failure. There are pages and pages on Totallyamaha about this. It was flawed in 17 and nothing has ever been addressed. For 2021 it is the same.
    The drive axle design is also flawed. The bearing next to the brake rotor turns with the driveshaft and wears out prematurely. Also a known issue dating back to 2017. Nothing has ever been done to address it. Also many pages of attention on Totallyamaha.

    Stockers and tuned up sleds share these common and known issues. I have never tuned my sled. It is bone stock. There is 3500 miles on it and I would not dare to ride it alone for 10 miles. It is a time bomb.
    As far as 200 horse it is a pooch. In stock form it is not that quick or that fast. I have always had big horses. It is not that much faster than a Pol 850. It is not any quicker up to 100. Whoever gets the better launch wins. It is however 175 lbs heavier than a Pol 850.
    To those of you who say it doesn't feel that much heavier when you are riding it you are idiots. It is a top heavy front heavy slug that will wear you out if you try to keep up with a lighter sled in the Twisties. I have ridden it for 3500 miles. I know this to be true. No amount of suspension tuning or rider ability or expensive shock absorbers can make up for 175 lbs. Physics always wins.
    Yamaha or rather AC builds big heavy expensive junk. I have been on Yamis since the 2003 RX ton. Which by the way was faster on absolute top end than a stock Sidewinder. But I have had enough. Good luck to anyone buying a Sidewinder. You will need it.

  89. #89
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    Out there
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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    Yup I own one. I even waited until the second year of production. Still didn't do enough research.
    The engine itself will last for 20000 miles. Just like any other Yami. The rest of the sled not so much. First thing I did was take off the stock skis and put on AC skis. There is not even ten feet of wear on the stickers. Did not like the AC skis either even after trying many combinations of carbides. After much research went with Mohawks with most aggressive carbide they offer. I don't run studs and they are just right. If I had any studs they would also push. Added BOP belt guard so when belt blew it would not take out belly pan. This is important because if you do take out the belly pan you are done for the year because there are no replacement parts on this continent. This also goes for chaincase parts. The chaincase is a flawed design that is prone to failure. There are pages and pages on Totallyamaha about this. It was flawed in 17 and nothing has ever been addressed. For 2021 it is the same.
    The drive axle design is also flawed. The bearing next to the brake rotor turns with the driveshaft and wears out prematurely. Also a known issue dating back to 2017. Nothing has ever been done to address it. Also many pages of attention on Totallyamaha.

    Stockers and tuned up sleds share these common and known issues. I have never tuned my sled. It is bone stock. There is 3500 miles on it and I would not dare to ride it alone for 10 miles. It is a time bomb.
    As far as 200 horse it is a pooch. In stock form it is not that quick or that fast. I have always had big horses. It is not that much faster than a Pol 850. It is not any quicker up to 100. Whoever gets the better launch wins. It is however 175 lbs heavier than a Pol 850.
    To those of you who say it doesn't feel that much heavier when you are riding it you are idiots. It is a top heavy front heavy slug that will wear you out if you try to keep up with a lighter sled in the Twisties. I have ridden it for 3500 miles. I know this to be true. No amount of suspension tuning or rider ability or expensive shock absorbers can make up for 175 lbs. Physics always wins.
    Yamaha or rather AC builds big heavy expensive junk. I have been on Yamis since the 2003 RX ton. Which by the way was faster on absolute top end than a stock Sidewinder. But I have had enough. Good luck to anyone buying a Sidewinder. You will need it.
    LMAO....Grub.... the anti-Yamaha guy can't stop buying them!

  90. #90
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    Onward to A Vr1 650 129. Perhaps someday I will meet Snobuilder out on the trail on the last Pol haybailer in existence. And we will smoke dope together and talk about Foxcon.

  91. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    Onward to A Vr1 650 129. Perhaps someday I will meet Snobuilder out on the trail on the last Pol haybailer in existence. And we will smoke dope together and talk about Foxcon.
    That sled report will be worth a listen.

  92. #92
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    Feb 2020
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    Under a rock
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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    Yup I own one. I even waited until the second year of production. Still didn't do enough research.
    The engine itself will last for 20000 miles. Just like any other Yami. The rest of the sled not so much. First thing I did was take off the stock skis and put on AC skis. There is not even ten feet of wear on the stickers. Did not like the AC skis either even after trying many combinations of carbides. After much research went with Mohawks with most aggressive carbide they offer. I don't run studs and they are just right. If I had any studs they would also push. Added BOP belt guard so when belt blew it would not take out belly pan. This is important because if you do take out the belly pan you are done for the year because there are no replacement parts on this continent. This also goes for chaincase parts. The chaincase is a flawed design that is prone to failure. There are pages and pages on Totallyamaha about this. It was flawed in 17 and nothing has ever been addressed. For 2021 it is the same.
    The drive axle design is also flawed. The bearing next to the brake rotor turns with the driveshaft and wears out prematurely. Also a known issue dating back to 2017. Nothing has ever been done to address it. Also many pages of attention on Totallyamaha.

    Stockers and tuned up sleds share these common and known issues. I have never tuned my sled. It is bone stock. There is 3500 miles on it and I would not dare to ride it alone for 10 miles. It is a time bomb.
    As far as 200 horse it is a pooch. In stock form it is not that quick or that fast. I have always had big horses. It is not that much faster than a Pol 850. It is not any quicker up to 100. Whoever gets the better launch wins. It is however 175 lbs heavier than a Pol 850.
    To those of you who say it doesn't feel that much heavier when you are riding it you are idiots. It is a top heavy front heavy slug that will wear you out if you try to keep up with a lighter sled in the Twisties. I have ridden it for 3500 miles. I know this to be true. No amount of suspension tuning or rider ability or expensive shock absorbers can make up for 175 lbs. Physics always wins.
    Yamaha or rather AC builds big heavy expensive junk. I have been on Yamis since the 2003 RX ton. Which by the way was faster on absolute top end than a stock Sidewinder. But I have had enough. Good luck to anyone buying a Sidewinder. You will need it.
    GRUB....if you just put the AC skis back on....lengthen the limiter strap till track is flat and run dual side by side 4 inch carbide with no studs....you won't regret it and it won't push at any speed

  93. #93
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    duallys are prone to push.
    Shapers are aggressive if you need front end single keel bite.

  94. #94
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    I do not have the XF skis like you recommended. Just the regular AC skis. Also I am running the limiters all the way loose already. It doesn't matter. It is too heavy. The gas tank is too small. Range is 100 miles. It is a cold ride. But most of all it is very disappointing for 200 supposed horses. It really isn't that strong.

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    duallys are prone to push.
    Shapers are aggressive if you need front end single keel bite.
    That statement tells me you have not tried 4 in dual side by side WITH the limiter lengthened...the shorter the carbide the lesser the push and more bite...longer pushes

    If you have a wear bar the entire length of the ski it would not turn at all....think about it

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    I do not have the XF skis like you recommended. Just the regular AC skis. Also I am running the limiters all the way loose already. It doesn't matter. It is too heavy. The gas tank is too small. Range is 100 miles. It is a cold ride. But most of all it is very disappointing for 200 supposed horses. It really isn't that strong.
    Then tighten the shocks up.front to bring the skis inboard and more bite...and sled front end up....lower is less bite and more flap

  96. #96
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    Nov 2009
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    South Central Wisconsin
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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    Yup I own one. I even waited until the second year of production. Still didn't do enough research.
    The engine itself will last for 20000 miles. Just like any other Yami. The rest of the sled not so much. First thing I did was take off the stock skis and put on AC skis. There is not even ten feet of wear on the stickers. Did not like the AC skis either even after trying many combinations of carbides. After much research went with Mohawks with most aggressive carbide they offer. I don't run studs and they are just right. If I had any studs they would also push. Added BOP belt guard so when belt blew it would not take out belly pan. This is important because if you do take out the belly pan you are done for the year because there are no replacement parts on this continent. This also goes for chaincase parts. The chaincase is a flawed design that is prone to failure. There are pages and pages on Totallyamaha about this. It was flawed in 17 and nothing has ever been addressed. For 2021 it is the same.
    The drive axle design is also flawed. The bearing next to the brake rotor turns with the driveshaft and wears out prematurely. Also a known issue dating back to 2017. Nothing has ever been done to address it. Also many pages of attention on Totallyamaha.

    Stockers and tuned up sleds share these common and known issues. I have never tuned my sled. It is bone stock. There is 3500 miles on it and I would not dare to ride it alone for 10 miles. It is a time bomb.
    As far as 200 horse it is a pooch. In stock form it is not that quick or that fast. I have always had big horses. It is not that much faster than a Pol 850. It is not any quicker up to 100. Whoever gets the better launch wins. It is however 175 lbs heavier than a Pol 850.
    To those of you who say it doesn't feel that much heavier when you are riding it you are idiots. It is a top heavy front heavy slug that will wear you out if you try to keep up with a lighter sled in the Twisties. I have ridden it for 3500 miles. I know this to be true. No amount of suspension tuning or rider ability or expensive shock absorbers can make up for 175 lbs. Physics always wins.
    Yamaha or rather AC builds big heavy expensive junk. I have been on Yamis since the 2003 RX ton. Which by the way was faster on absolute top end than a stock Sidewinder. But I have had enough. Good luck to anyone buying a Sidewinder. You will need it.
    Why are you so worried about keeping up with someone in the twisties?
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

  97. #97
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    Go down to section 2.2 off road mobility....the VCI number needs to be 0....flat on snow as you can get the track turns sharper with no push...raising front end and bringing skis inboard put the VCI number lower...a sled has low ground pressure

    https://www.hindawi.com/journals/afs/2017/3982753/

    Plus modern tracked tanks are not slow any more...they can do 70 mph

  98. #98
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    I tried everything you recommended tracker. The biggest thing is that I did NOT have the XF skis which have a different profile than the regular AC skis. So they are not going to behave the same. The Mohawks I bought by are more like the AC mountain skis. The Mohawks are heads and shoulders better than the regular width AC skis. Just the width alone helps a lot to keep the front end up on top of the snow on any ungroomed surface like a lake for example. Also a dual runner carbide like Snobuilder describes is not the same as 2 separated carbides of the style that AC or Doo uses on their skis. It is a whole different program. A Pol ski is a whole different program again. I have a whole bunch of everybody's skis to look at. Everybody has a different idea. When it all comes down to it less people complain about their Pols turning ability. Pol owners complain about other things but seldom about turning. So that is something.

  99. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    Why are you so worried about keeping up with someone in the twisties?
    The only place a Sidewinder is useful is on a long straight like a lake. It is useless as a ditch banger. It flies and lands like a brick even with the expensive shocks like I have on mine. It will wear you out. If you try to ride it hard through a tight trail it will again wear you out after a short time. And if you are ever unfortunate enough to get it stuck you will most certainly need assistance to get it out. It all goes back to weight. It is too heavy. And that is also the core reason it is not dependable. It eats itself. The entire driveline is subject to more stress just because it is carrying around 200 plus more lbs of weight all the time.

  100. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    Onward to A Vr1 650 129. Perhaps someday I will meet Snobuilder out on the trail on the last Pol haybailer in existence. And we will smoke dope together and talk about Foxcon.
    Yeah, well, I sure would like to get to listen in on that conversation!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Carbide View Post
    I know dozens of guys with Sidewinders. Many of them have had thousands of trouble free miles.
    The only ones that I know of that have had issues are the ones that are tuned way above what the engineers designed them to do.

    I am ordering a 2021 Sidewinder with confidence.
    I can think of a dozen other sleds I'd rather own, ride, and enjoy!

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