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Thread: Vacine Shot

  1. #1
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    Default Vacine Shot

    Pulled up my sleeve and got the 1st shooter in my arm today. Moderna. I still have to look away while I cringe.

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    Unibrow soon to follow.lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by chords View Post
    Pulled up my sleeve and got the 1st shooter in my arm today. Moderna. I still have to look away while I cringe.
    LOL, eh! Me too, the same way. However I never even felt it, just a bit of muscle tightness the second day, after that good to go. Wife and I received the Pfizer, now waiting on second stab. J+J sounds good as 1 and done.

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    Getting my second Pfizer on Sat 3/13. Non scientific sampling of my friends seems like more reactions to Moderna#2, again, no science.
    Ready for the day, got a bag of 10mg Indica gummies all set (I'm in CA), gonna tape the remote control to my hand and hide the car keys.
    If no reaction guess I'll just have a really good buzz on!

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    No problem with my first one. Second one knocked me on my butt the 2nd day after getting it. Just tired, nothing else.

    I am bullet proof now...back to licking doorknobs!



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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    No problem with my first one. Second one knocked me on my butt the 2nd day after getting it. Just tired, nothing else.

    I am bullet proof now...back to licking doorknobs!

    And chewing gum from ashtrays! Wife had similar reactions nothing on first slight fever for a few hours and tired on day after second shot.

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    Maderna here and second day I didn't have a lot of energy but that was about it. Felt great the next day.

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    Wife and I got our first round of the Moderna this past Friday. Both experienced fevers and slight headaches. We were hoping for a non event from the vaccine since we both already had the virus...not the case for us.

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    We have had both of the Moderna shots and no side effects either time. 

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    48 plus hrs later and no problem w first shoot. April 3 for next one. I have to say I was concerned and still am for #2. I go into a local drugstore and have no idea what's getting jabbed into me ??

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    Moderna 1 knocked me on my butt 2nd day reaction had wife and I in full stop body aches had to spend day in recliner. Day 3 we resumed activities she did well I fell apart everything hurt bad. I’m just starting to feel like me and I’m surprised since we both had covid back in late October. My plans for Moderna 2 is full shop no activity hope for the best. Overall this SUCKS!!

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    Sounds like the "cure" is worse than the disease??  For a lot of people anyway.  No shot for this guy!

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    Sounds like the "cure" is worse than the disease??* For a lot of people anyway.* No shot for this guy!
    X2

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    Im going to get all 3.

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    My mom had a bit of a fever and aches a couple days after the first one as well, then just fine (Not sure which manufacturer she took). Sounds like the reaction is similar to any other flu shot people have been getting over the last how ever many years..... I myself am with the "I don't need it" crew, I've never gotten a flu shot either. I was exposed to plenty of people who had the Covid, and never had anything more than my normal runny nose this winter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    Sounds like the "cure" is worse than the disease?? For a lot of people anyway. No shot for this guy!
    Yeah and I'm hearing the shot only lasts maybe 6 months...

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    Sounds like the "cure" is worse than the disease??* For a lot of people anyway.* No shot for this guy!
    Ditto here, and if its going to prevent me from doing some things...Oh well, Ill find something else to do, their loss not mine. Shot kicked one of my employees butt, said he wont go again either. Funny thing is for some the reaction mimics the virus itself, even though its not a live or dead virus being injected, and the "science's" answer to the reaction... "that means its working" YEAH RIGHT! NO THANKS! I'll take my 99% plus chance!

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    Quote Originally Posted by euphoric1 View Post
    Ditto here, and if its going to prevent me from doing some things...Oh well, Ill find something else to do, their loss not mine. Shot kicked one of my employees butt, said he wont go again either. Funny thing is for some the reaction mimics the virus itself, even though its not a live or dead virus being injected, and the "science's" answer to the reaction... "that means its working" YEAH RIGHT! NO THANKS! I'll take my 99% plus chance!
    Yep, I don’t need to fly, I’ll drive. I have heard to many horror stories about people getting that shot. Big NO for me and my family.

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    Lady here died from "complications from Covid 19 vaccine"......just sayin....

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    Quote Originally Posted by srt20 View Post
    Lady here died from "complications from Covid 19 vaccine"......just sayin....
    Can you please give us anymore info on this? Where did this happen?

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Can you please give us anymore info on this? Where did this happen?
    I read it in her obituary. You didn't think the news would cover something like that did you?

    Jefferson WI. Says second shot of Covid 19 vaccine overwhelmed her system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by srt20 View Post
    I read it in her obituary. You didn't think the news would cover something like that did you?

    Jefferson WI. Says second shot of Covid 19 vaccine overwhelmed her system.
    One of our customers was in and just lost his mother in law...ironically 2 days after second shot, brought her home afterwards and said continued to get weaker and weaker and that was it, she was 89. Not blaming shot but customer suspects it was the cause, who knows. I'm sure just as the virus itself symptoms and reactions will vary from person to person, nature of the beast.

  23. #23
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    I will take my chances with the bad flu.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Of which I'm pretty sure I had way over a year ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitedust View Post
    Moderna 1 knocked me on my butt 2nd day reaction had wife and I in full stop body aches had to spend day in recliner. Day 3 we resumed activities she did well I fell apart everything hurt bad. I’m just starting to feel like me and I’m surprised since we both had covid back in late October. My plans for Moderna 2 is full shop no activity hope for the best. Overall this SUCKS!!
    Saw my doctor today couldn’t take the pain in my shoulders any longer. Diagnosed with a stretched tendon on my left rotator cuff. The Moderna shot for whatever reason weakened my left arm aggravated the injury. Cortisone shot went in and immediate relief. Pain was sooo bad my heartbeat was accelerated at rest. It was horrible and I hope we resolved my problem next shot in about 12 days so hoping for full recovery before they stick me again.

  25. #25
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    Got mine today. No side effects yet, we'll see what tomorrow brings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by srt20 View Post
    I read it in her obituary. You didn't think the news would cover something like that did you?

    Jefferson WI. Says second shot of Covid 19 vaccine overwhelmed her system.
    Seems very strange, as yes, I really do think the news media would surely be all over this? As you read it in her obituary Jefferson, WI, eh?
    Last edited by old abe; 03-11-2021 at 07:46 AM.

  27. #27
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    Just got my first of the Moderna shot today. Looking forward to #2 in 28 days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gary_in_neenah View Post
    Got mine today. No side effects yet, we'll see what tomorrow brings.
    Tomorrow brought a sore arm. If that's the worst of it then I'm good to go.

  29. #29
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    No, thanks.

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    My dad had his first shot and 3 days after was in this hospital with a blood clot in his lung. There is no evidence to say it was because of the shot but the Dr said this is not the first time this happened but not enough to link it to the shot either. I will wait and see what happens down the road and give it sometime. I had Covid so I at least have antibodies for as long as the shot may last? Who knows

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    Quote Originally Posted by ridindirty800 View Post
    My dad had his first shot and 3 days after was in this hospital with a blood clot in his lung. There is no evidence to say it was because of the shot but the Dr said this is not the first time this happened but not enough to link it to the shot either. I will wait and see what happens down the road and give it sometime. I had Covid so I at least have antibodies for as long as the shot may last? Who knows
    Sample of 180 people got both shots, local school. 1 ended up with Thrombocytopenia and is still in hospital. Sounds like what your dad has, or similar condition. That's the one that the FL doc passed from early on in the vaccine's release. What I've read is the vax (and not just this one?) causes your immune system to attack platlettes, which results in bleeding (blood clots, etc). Sounds like it's pretty rare, still a bad deal and potentially fatal.

  32. #32
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    In an upside world, it’s hard to believe reports with confidence OF ANYTHING. I’ve read in more than one article that so far, 1637 deaths from the vaccine.

    My sister in law tested positive back in Dec than my brother developed symptoms. At that point he called to schedule a test and they told him not to come in because his wife tested positive and he had similar symptoms. On last Dec, I developed no taste with no congestion, slight fever and a bit sluggish so I stayed home but my son developed similar but not exact symptoms and since he’s a fed-Ex driver, he went and got a test which came back positive. We all respond to viruses differently but from what I’ve read, if your under 70, your 99.7% going to survive. My thinking is, why take a experimental vaccine if I’m healthy.

    I still say let’s go back to the old method of dealing with these things by protecting/providing for the needs of the vulnerable while allowing the healthy population to contract the virus and build immunity which leads to heard immunity. We are over a year into this fiasco with a devastated economy, all other kinds of negative consequences from a unrealistic approach of preventing/slowing heard immunity.

    I’m one that says, do what’s best for you but don’t force me to do what’s best for you. Life and liberty trump everything. Without life and liberty,,,,we cease to be.


    I think it’s awesome you guys can research things and make your own educated decision on what you feel is best for you.

    https://apple.news/Aoei1q9JMSnCeBRis0BtXSw
    Last edited by lenny; 03-13-2021 at 08:35 AM. Reason: Nnn

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    Did your doc think you needed the shot? I dont get why you would need it . Would think you have the natural antibody in your system .

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    #Lenny/Ezra2024

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    2nd Pfizer shot yesterday. No reaction at all for either of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsnomo View Post
    2nd Pfizer shot yesterday. No reaction at all for either of us.
    Yep, all good, eh! I get my second shot of the Pfizer Friday the 19th! Looking forward to it!

  37. #37
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    1st Moderna Friday...arm sore Saturday AM...no worst than after a few hours at the gym....maybe a little tired...hard to tell..been tired everyday for about 40 years...Read 10 articles get 10 different answers/responses....I had my annual check up in November...flat asked the Dr if he was getting it...exact words....Id like to see a little more data but yes Im getting it. Good enough for me....and he is an actual Doctor not a doctor on a snowmobile message board.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhra1000 View Post
    1st Moderna Friday...arm sore Saturday AM...no worst than after a few hours at the gym....maybe a little tired...hard to tell..been tired everyday for about 40 years...Read 10 articles get 10 different answers/responses....I had my annual check up in November...flat asked the Dr if he was getting it...exact words....Id like to see a little more data but yes Im getting it. Good enough for me....and he is an actual Doctor not a doctor on a snowmobile message board.
    Well said! IMO, an ounce of prevention is worth a lb. of cure. The choice is yours & only you can make it.-Mezz



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    Just got mine, Moderna will give report how it goes next day or so.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nhra1000 View Post
    1st Moderna Friday...arm sore Saturday AM...no worst than after a few hours at the gym....maybe a little tired...hard to tell..been tired everyday for about 40 years...Read 10 articles get 10 different answers/responses....I had my annual check up in November...flat asked the Dr if he was getting it...exact words....Id like to see a little more data but yes Im getting it. Good enough for me....and he is an actual Doctor not a doctor on a snowmobile message board.
    Hey, I’m not trying to make anyone feel uncomfortable with the decision they are making. I’m simply adding to the discussion my observations which may or may not be correct. So please don’t feel threatened because I speak directly to the point. I’m just trying to listen to all the information, perspectives and differing opinions and than present it to advance the discussion.

    Ask the Florida doctor Gregory Michael how he’s doing with the experimental vaccine. Oh wait, that doctor is dead,,,,,,,,

    your doctor said he would like to see more data but he’s going to take it? I guess the data he’s looking for doesn’t exist. Without the data,,,, he’s comfortable? He wants the data for what reason yet he’s decided he’s taking it? It doesn’t seem like a very compelling statement to me but hey, to each his own!
    Last edited by lenny; 03-16-2021 at 09:10 AM.

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    Lenny you are correct there isn’t as much data out there as people would like so it is to each there own. But how often do we see lawyers wanting you to call if you took a certain drug for whatever and now 5-10-15 years later they find out it’s not as good as it could have been, some have died or now have other issues and those drugs went through proper testing and data. Life is not the same for all people and that is the great thing about America we do have choices, and even with all the data in this world on everything in this world people’s opinions will differ. So my point there isn’t enough data in this world that can tell everyone what they should do, but as you stated to each his (or her, or there) own. One last note as posted earlier got shot yesterday and today feeling fine little sore at injection point but that is all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    Life is not the same for all people and that is the great thing about America we do have choices.
    Boy I wish this statement would have held more water than it did a year ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr440 View Post
    Boy I wish this statement would have held more water than it did a year ago.
    I was going to say something very similar to that. I feel we may soon have to make a decision to take the vaccine if we want to fly on a plane, travel to another country, maybe to attend a large sporting event...who knows. It's being discussed already. Some say "then I won't travel". Easy for some to say. If you have family in other countries it makes that decision very difficult. I'm hoping this goes away soon so we aren't faced with this decision. I have no need to take the vaccine at this time and won't. I'm healthy and don't want to put it in my body. If our ability to see our family is cut off without the vaccine, well then I will have to re-think my position. Tough call for sure for many.

  44. #44
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    I was able to get put on a list last week for shot #1, rec'd a call last eve for the shot at 2 pm this afternoon. I'm all in, too many have not been able to get this opportunity. My 81 y/o parents had them with no real issues, so, I'm going for it. The way I look at it is, we have to do something so we can have a reasonable amount of normalcy restored. -Mezz 

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr440 View Post
    Boy I wish this statement would have held more water than it did a year ago.
    AMEN TO THAT!! all about the control!

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    Lenny you are correct there isn’t as much data out there as people would like so it is to each there own. But how often do we see lawyers wanting you to call if you took a certain drug for whatever and now 5-10-15 years later they find out it’s not as good as it could have been, some have died or now have other issues and those drugs went through proper testing and data. Life is not the same for all people and that is the great thing about America we do have choices, and even with all the data in this world on everything in this world people’s opinions will differ. So my point there isn’t enough data in this world that can tell everyone what they should do, but as you stated to each his (or her, or there) own. One last note as posted earlier got shot yesterday and today feeling fine little sore at injection point but that is all.

    Agreed but I’d like to add this in addition;  the process in which vaccines are developed TYPICALLY have not been followed because of the “pandemic”.   A very large portion of the testing process has been compromised or eliminated so this is why the data is not available.  This should be a concern and better yet, strengthening out immune systems should be of primary concern.   If close to 1700 people have indeed died as a result of a rushed vaccine, we all should be extremely alarmed.  You won’t find me supporting anything without extensive research because the risk adverse reactions are great.  

  47. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post


    Agreed but I’d like to add this in addition; *the process in which vaccines are developed TYPICALLY have not been followed because of the “pandemic”. * A very large portion of the testing process has been compromised or eliminated so this is why the data is not available. *This should be a concern and better yet, strengthening out immune systems should be of primary concern. * If close to 1700 people have indeed died as a result of a rushed vaccine, we all should be extremely alarmed. *You won’t find me supporting anything without extensive research because the risk adverse reactions are great. *
    Very true, it is all just a time will tell thing with anything invented, so for the sake of everyone that gets or has gotten it the adverse reactions are very small with no real long term affects, and we can get to the point we can start to get back to some sort on normalcy.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    Very true, it is all just a time will tell thing with anything invented, so for the sake of everyone that gets or has gotten it the adverse reactions are very small with no real long term affects, and we can get to the point we can start to get back to some sort on normalcy.
    IMO, we could have reached heard immunity 7 months ago if we would have just let it run its course.  Do you agree? 



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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post

    IMO, we could have reached heard immunity 7 months ago if we would have just let it run its course. Do you agree?


    I'm not a doctor but the docs I listen to and have respect for all said that exact thing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post

    IMO, we could have reached heard immunity 7 months ago if we would have just let it run its course. *Do you agree?*

    Yes I agree we could have gotten to heard immunity sooner but I also feel the vaccine is needed for those who couldn’t handle getting covid (ie) my mother who has heart, lung, and kidney issues at 81 years old so I and she need this vaccine so we can get back to some sort of normal. So like has been said we all have our choices to make, if I just had to worry about myself probably wouldn’t get the shot but I will do what is best for my family and hopefully this country and in my (not speaking for anyone else) case it is to get the shot to get us back to some sort of normal if that is even possible or wantable ( word I may have made up but hopefully understandable).

  51. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezz View Post
    … My 81 y/o parents had them with no real issues. … -Mezz
    Well that's encouraging, says this 80 year old!
    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    Agreed but I’d like to add this in addition; the process in which vaccines are developed TYPICALLY have not been followed because of the “pandemic”. A very large portion of the testing process has been compromised or eliminated so this is why the data is not available. This should be a concern and better yet, strengthening out immune systems should be of primary concern. If close to 1700 people have indeed died as a result of a rushed vaccine, we all should be extremely alarmed. You won’t find me supporting anything without extensive research because the risk adverse reactions are great.
    "… 1700 people have indeed died as a result of a rushed vaccine …" And more than 500,000 have died with no vaccine. Ya wanna play the odds?
    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    IMO, we could have reached heard immunity 7 months ago if we would have just let it run its course. Do you agree?
    Well to date we have had 560,000 COVID deaths with all that has been done; how many would we have had if we had "just let it run its course"?

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    560000 deaths marked as covid. Will we really ever know how many deaths JUST from covid?
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    560000 deaths marked as covid. Will we really ever know how many deaths JUST from covid?
    With all the money that was generated by labeling them as "covid" HA!...Thats a good one! will never happen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    560000 deaths marked as covid. Will we really ever know how many deaths JUST from covid?
    Bingo. I wonder why flu deaths are almost non-existent?

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    Got this yesterday from my health care provider. To me, what it's saying is that I'll be an uncompensated lab rat, with no avenues for recourse should the experiment go wrong. No, thanks.

    20210316_105333.jpg

  56. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by frnash View Post
    Well that's encouraging, says this 80 year old!"… 1700 people have indeed died as a result of a rushed vaccine …" And more than 500,000 have died with no vaccine. Ya wanna play the odds?Well to date we have had 560,000 COVID deaths with all that has been done; how many would we have had if we had "just let it run its course"?

    Much less deaths if we let it run its course. Don’t forget that for 70 years old and younger the survival rate is 99.7%. So, the faster those 99.7% get it and build natural immunity, the sooner the vulnerable are protected. When we “slow the spread”, we slow our ability to achieve heard immunity. We actually encouraged the spread of CV by not protecting the vulnerable. When you mandate masks, social distancing, people feel a false sense of protection which enables the vulnerable people to continue to go about their daily routine with a mask rather than staying home and allowing people to provide for their needs.

    What should have been practiced was our prior 2020 approach which was to protect the vulnerable while providing for their needs. We than allow the rest to function at their own risk which indeed will spread the 99.7% survivable virus, building natural immunity which in turn literally protects the vulnerable.

    So to summarize! If I get the virus, I am no longer a risk to anyone. 81% of the US population is 69 year old and younger. If those 81% have a 99.7% survivability factor, let them get the virus, building natural antibodies so the majority of the population is not a risk to the vulnerable population. Heard immunity would be achieved very quickly. Slowing the spread slows heard immunity and encourages a lingering effect which is dangerous.
    Last edited by lenny; 03-17-2021 at 09:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by russholio View Post
    Bingo. I wonder why flu deaths are almost non-existent?
    AMAZING isn't it! and who thought miracles didn't exist!

  58. #58
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by russholio View Post
    Got this yesterday from my health care provider. To me, what it's saying is that I'll be an uncompensated lab rat, with no avenues for recourse should the experiment go wrong. No, thanks.



    https://forum.johndee.com/vbulletin/...837&stc=1" attachmentid="62837" alt="" id="vbattach_62837" class="previewthumb">
    wow!



  59. #59
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    560000 deaths marked as covid. Will we really ever know how many deaths JUST from covid?


    well said! Let’s not forget this!

    https://youtu.be/gYjBC_DTNWM

    if the link doesn’t work, you can copy it and paste it on YT but it’s the Illinois doc video saying how the deaths are recorded,,,,which is a disaster.

  60. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by russholio View Post
    Bingo. I wonder why flu deaths are almost non-existent?
    Just a thought not confirmed but with the mask wearing, social distancing, and so many schools closed for so long that the flu was able to be curbed also? Anyone that has or had children know how germs spread in schools, also with businesses of all sorts doing a much better job of cleaning and disinfecting all of these things have had to help keep things like colds and the flu down. Again just my thoughts and not confirmed, but would make sense.

  61. #61
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    Just a thought not confirmed but with the mask wearing, social distancing, and so many schools closed for so long that the flu was able to be curbed also? Anyone that has or had children know how germs spread in schools, also with businesses of all sorts doing a much better job of cleaning and disinfecting all of these things have had to help keep things like colds and the flu down. Again just my thoughts and not confirmed, but would make sense.
    2020 US annual deaths are lower than 2019, kinda weird hey? Not sure who we can believe these days as stats are contested.

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    I think you're on to something there. No doubt that Covid has been politicized but with all the aforementioned practices it may have had an effect on our regular flu strain.

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    My wife is a school teacher has been for 23 years every year she will get some type of cold some years worse than others, the last 8 have been in a school with 1200 people in it so it makes sense that is where it comes from just can’t get away from it. Last February before Covid was causing a lockdown they were very close to having to shut down the school because they had so many of the staff out with flu, cold, or whatever they had that they didn’t have enough subs to fill in. They were able to weather though it but it happens. This year granted a chance in schools 125-150 people in building and at home learning not even a sniffle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    2020 US annual deaths are lower than 2019, kinda weird hey? Not sure who we can believe these days as stats are contested.
    Lenny,


    Where do you see the 2019 deaths rates are less than 2020? Your comment made me curious and I looked at the CDC website.
    Roughly:

    2.8 millions deaths in US for 2019
    3.1 million deaths in US for 2020

    Actually 2020 may have set a record for US deaths?

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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    Just a thought not confirmed but with the mask wearing, social distancing, and so many schools closed for so long that the flu was able to be curbed also? Anyone that has or had children know how germs spread in schools, also with businesses of all sorts doing a much better job of cleaning and disinfecting all of these things have had to help keep things like colds and the flu down. Again just my thoughts and not confirmed, but would make sense.
    Jim, a side note to that... you keep hearing "herd immunity" which is accomplished by what?... exposure and vaccination, now we know there isn't a vaccine for the common cold, and like the flu, covid affects people very differently, same with the flu that has a vaccine and is at best 50% - 60% effective and until this year killed on average 500,000 people worldwide, and who knows what else is out there that our bodies are exposed to and developed natural immunity to. Now you take away all of that exposure i.e. your wife not even getting a sniffle this year likely due to working from home, you have to wonder...are we setting ourselves up for another super bug? or how will the common cold or flu affect us the next time around. Me...I'd rather be exposed and get it over with.
    Last edited by euphoric1; 03-17-2021 at 10:43 AM.

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    Brian I can agree with you, it could happen, one other thing to add is I’ve worked outside most of my life where the air is cleaner then recirculated building air and very seldom would get sick, but when I did it usually was a doozy, probably because I didn’t have the immunity to things like my wife would. They know schools are one of the biggest germ spreaders around some districts would give new teachers extra sick days if there first few years because they knew they would get sick more until they built up there immunity.

  67. #67
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishcrib View Post
    Lenny,





    Where do you see the 2019 deaths rates are less than 2020? Your comment made me curious and I looked at the CDC website.

    Roughly:



    2.8 millions deaths in US for 2019

    3.1 million deaths in US for 2020



    Actually 2020 may have set a record for US deaths?
    Great question so I am looking for my reference but cannot locate it.  I saw the figure in mid January when I had covid.  I’ll keep looking but let me explain this in the time being.   

    The United States population is 1/24th of the world population (320 million of 7.6 billion).  In the United States, 2.6 million die each year.  That is 7123 each day, 297 each hour, and 5 each minute.

    Our covid death count doesn’t mean you die from covid.  The death count represents those who die with covid, not because of covid.  So as the 7000+ people die or day, how many tested positive that actually died if a heart attack, cancer, car crash or any other death.  

    So when you quote the CDC annual death count, remember that it’s not actual deaths by covid but deaths WITH COVID.  How inflated is the number of covid deaths, it seems to reason that the number is significant.  Remember about seven months ago how Candace Owens made a big stink about this very thing I’m telling you? There was a young child who died in a home accident but tested positive and was counted as a covid death. This is a widespread miss use of statistics that is contributing to a nationwide perception that is false.  I can easily prove this is the case by you simply watching a YouTube video of the Illinois doctor right in the beginning of the pandemic where she says this exact thing. I posted it above in one of my posts with a YouTube link.  If the link is invalid just copy and paste it on YouTube and it will play.  This is under the directives of the CDC. not particular states.  Keep in mind that if you test today positive for coronavirus and you die in a car crash tomorrow, you are a Covid death.  Before you write my perspective off as a false claim, watch the YouTube video with the Illinois doctor at one of their corona briefings and she will tell you how Covid deaths are recorded, and like I said, it’s the CDC’s directives, not states varying data processing.



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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    Just a thought not confirmed but with the mask wearing, social distancing, and so many schools closed for so long that the flu was able to be curbed also? Anyone that has or had children know how germs spread in schools, also with businesses of all sorts doing a much better job of cleaning and disinfecting all of these things have had to help keep things like colds and the flu down. Again just my thoughts and not confirmed, but would make sense.
    Maybe, and I can see the logic there. I've heard it said that is indeed the case. But I've also heard it said that Covid isn't going away because people AREN'T wearing masks. I don't see how it can work both ways. I think there is a lot of information, misinformation, propaganda, and lies out there all the way around. Bottom line for me is, I trust me to know what's best for me, more than I trust the government to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    Brian I can agree with you, it could happen, one other thing to add is I’ve worked outside most of my life where the air is cleaner then recirculated building air and very seldom would get sick, but when I did it usually was a doozy, probably because I didn’t have the immunity to things like my wife would. They know schools are one of the biggest germ spreaders around some districts would give new teachers extra sick days if there first few years because they knew they would get sick more until they built up there immunity.
    I would agree with this from a personal stand point. I work at home, and the little woman (A nurse) used to tell me, my immune system is probably lower due to not being exposed to other people and "stuff" going around. In years past, I would get sick late summer, early fall, as I hate the heat, and try to spend as little time outside in humid weather as possible. This probably had me a little more at risk for catching something that would make me sick.


    Ironically, in 2020, I took the opposite approach to staying home as we were told, and went out as much as possible, traveled as much as possible to different locations, and much to my surprise, I never got sick this past year! Just one guys personal scientific (NOT) findings.


    And NO, I don't wear a mask.
    Last edited by xcr440; 03-17-2021 at 11:48 AM.

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    It is quite obvious that mask mandates, and the closings of schools, and people being more conscious about washing hands, has drastically cut down on the common cold and regular flu this past winter. Our cleaning crew here at work have done a fabulous job of the twice a day wipe downs of all common areas, door handles, bathrooms, etc. I myself believe this is the main reason that there were a lot less colds and regular flu here at work. By the way I see Trump is recommending everyone get the vaccine shot, so I will get one as soon as I can.

    Just kidding, still not getting one! :-)
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post

    Great question so I am looking for my reference but cannot locate it. *I saw the figure in mid January when I had covid. *I’ll keep looking but let me explain this in the time being. **

    The United States population is 1/24th of the world population (320 million of 7.6 billion). *In the United States, 2.6 million die each year. *That is 7123 each day, 297 each hour, and 5 each minute.

    Our covid death count doesn’t mean you die from covid. *The death count represents those who die with covid, not because of covid. *So as the 7000+ people die or day, how many tested positive that actually died if a heart attack, cancer, car crash or any other death. *

    So when you quote the CDC annual death count, remember that it’s not actual deaths by covid but deaths WITH COVID. *How inflated is the number of covid deaths, it seems to reason that the number is significant. *Remember about seven months ago how Candace Owens made a big stink about this very thing I’m telling you? There was a young child who died in a home accident but tested positive and was counted as a covid death. This is a widespread miss use of statistics that is contributing to a nationwide perception that is false. *I can easily prove this is the case by you simply watching a YouTube video of the Illinois doctor right in the beginning of the pandemic where she says this exact thing. I posted it above in one of my posts with a YouTube link. *If the link is invalid just copy and paste it on YouTube and it will play. *This is under the directives of the CDC. not particular states. *Keep in mind that if you test today positive for coronavirus and you die in a car crash tomorrow, you are a Covid death. *Before you write my perspective off as a false claim, watch the YouTube video with the Illinois doctor at one of their corona briefings and she will tell you how Covid deaths are recorded, and like I said, it’s the CDC’s directives, not states varying data processing.

    I get what you are saying here, but unless I misread your last post you said overall deaths in the US were down in 2019.
    The numbers I looked up were total deaths by whatever reason.

  72. #72
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    Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water....

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...e78X4FpQ-KAR6Y

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    Got my second vaccination shot this morning (Moderna) and I have to say, it’s a good feeling to have completed the shot series.  I had no side effects from the first dose and I’m not anticipating any issues with the second.

    Now that my 96-year-old mother and I have both been fully vaccinated, I’m hoping to be able to visit her in person soon, give her a big hug, and have a cup of coffee and a long face-to-face conversation.


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    I swore that I wasn't going to post anything, but i guess I'm weak....LOL

    Anyways let me first off say that it is up to you to decide one way or another to get the vaccine or not. I've been offered 4 times to get the vaccine and I'm not as I have my concerns. I guess the main reason is it hasn't been tested long enough. Second would be that the government gave these companies immunity for anything (death, sickness, whatever) till 2025. Third and here's the biggie, just because you got a shot today, how does it protect from different stains of the virus? Please don't say, because we have been told it will. How can you protect against something that hasn't even been produced (virus strains) yet. I have had covid already, doesn't mean that you can't get it again as my understand it the antibodies stay with you only for 90 days. I guess I'm done, but I'll leave you with this. So again how do we know the current vaccine is effective against this new stain? If anything I can see having to get a vaccine yearly.



    COVID-19 U.K. Variant Detected in Wexford County
    March 17, 2021
    9and10news Site Staff
    The U.K. COVID-19 variant has been detected for the first time in Wexford County.
    The case was identified through routine surveillance by the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services.
    This variant is considered more contagious but it’s not linked to more severe cases or outcomes.

    The U.K. variant has been identified in 50 states and jurisdictions around the U.S. with 616 cases in Michigan as of March 11, 2021. The health department says if this new variant begins to circulate widely in Michigan, it could cause more death and hospitalization.
    “The identification of this more contagious variant in our area reminds us that we must continue to take steps to slow the spread of COVID-19 by wearing a mask, staying six feet apart, and avoiding indoor gatherings,” said Dr. Jennifer Morse, Medical Director for the health department.

    COVID-19 U.K. Variant Detected in Wexford County
    March 17, 2021
    9and10news Site Staff
    The U.K. COVID-19 variant has been detected for the first time in Wexford County.
    The case was identified through routine surveillance by the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services.
    This variant is considered more contagious but it’s not linked to more severe cases or outcomes.
    The U.K. variant has been identified in 50 states and jurisdictions around the U.S. with 616 cases in Michigan as of March 11, 2021. The health department says if this new variant begins to circulate widely in Michigan, it could cause more death and hospitalization.
    “The identification of this more contagious variant in our area reminds us that we must continue to take steps to slow the spread of COVID-19 by wearing a mask, staying six feet apart, and avoiding indoor gatherings,” said Dr. Jennifer Morse, Medical Director for the health department. “



    https://www.9and10news.com/2021/03/1...exford-county/
    Last edited by rv245; 03-17-2021 at 09:40 PM.

  75. #75
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishcrib View Post
    I get what you are saying here, but unless I misread your last post you said overall deaths in the US were down in 2019.

    The numbers I looked up were total deaths by whatever reason.

    What I said was 2019 deaths were higher in 20 compared to 19. Back in January I read that somewhere. Now every search is nearly all CDC references so not sure why they dominate the search’s engines,,,,,but they do. Now all I read is 20 numbers are not available but likey yup 3.2 million compared to 19. Regardless, covid death reporting is a scam for the reasons I stated earlier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    … to summarize! If I get the virus, I am no longer a risk to anyone. 81% of the US population is 69 year old and younger. If those 81% have a 99.7% survivability factor, let them get the virus, building natural antibodies so the majority of the population is not a risk to the vulnerable population. Heard [sic] immunity would be achieved very quickly. Slowing the spread slows heard [sic] immunity and encourages a lingering effect which is dangerous.
    Let them get the virus? Well, if that plan would work, why waste all the time, energy and money fabricating an anti-virus (or two, or three)? Really expedite the process: Don't just wait for them to "get the virus", GIVE IT TO THEM; inject 'em with the live virus, thus building natural immunity more efficiently, and speeding up that herd immunity! Problem solved!

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by frnash View Post
    Let them get the virus? Well, if that plan would work, why waste all the time, energy and money fabricating an anti-virus (or two, or three)? Really expedite the process: Don't just wait for them to "get the virus", GIVE IT TO THEM; inject 'em with the live virus, thus building natural immunity more efficiently, and speeding up that herd immunity! Problem solved!
    Frank, what I presented was our previous method of dealing with corona viruses. It’s proven effective without all the coloration damage that was created.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    Frank, what I presented was our previous method of dealing with corona viruses. It’s proven effective without all the coloration damage that was created.
    Exactly - all we did was kick the can down the road on this one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    Frank, what I presented was our previous method of dealing with corona viruses. It’s proven effective without all the coloration damage that was created.
    It didn’t work for everyone!

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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    It didn’t work for everyone!
    Nor has or will the vaccine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    It didn’t work for everyone!
    Has anything ever worked for everyone?

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    It didn’t work for everyone!

    I knew someone would say such a thing. A fact of life is that virus can kill people. Healthy people handle a virus better than a person with problems. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a God given right that is articulated to Americans in the US constitution. When we prevent an individual’s liberty to move about freely, it can only happen within reason and in an emergency. It is no longer reasonable to continue to do the wrong thing continuously. Typically when we make a mistake, we would make a correction. We have not made the correction but yet we embrace the mistake. This is not only unconstitutional but it’s ignorant. I knew this thing was a set up from the very beginning when I heard the first statistic that said 80% of the people who get coronavirus will have mild to no symptoms. The truth was verified with more statistics that say those of 70 years old and younger have a 99.7% survivability rate. That’s all we need to know and the corrections should’ve been made. The problem is that were being governed by the worldview of globalists who do not like a constitutional republic government so we are in a transition phase. Unless we do something about it, the transition will continue. BMA!!!!!!
    Last edited by lenny; 03-18-2021 at 10:18 AM.

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by russholio View Post
    Nor has or will the vaccine.

    bingo!  The best success ratio for other CV’s at best has been 60% and somehow with minimal testing this c19 vaccine is 95%!   NOT!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    I knew someone would say such a thing. A fact of life is that virus can kill people. Healthy people handle a virus better than a person with problems. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is a God given right that is articulated to Americans in the US constitution. When we prevent an individual’s liberty to move about freely, it can only happen within reason and in an emergency. It is no longer reasonable to continue to do the wrong thing continuously. Typically when we make a mistake, we would make a correction. We have not made the correction but yet we embrace the mistake. This is not only unconstitutional but it’s ignorant. I knew this thing was a set up from the very beginning when I heard the first statistic that said 80% of the people who get coronavirus will have mild to no symptoms. The truth was verified with more statistics that say those of 70 years old and younger have a 99.7% survivability rate. That’s all we need to know and the corrections should’ve been made. The problem is that were being governed by the worldview of globalists who do not like a constitutional republic government so we are in a transition phase. Unless we do something about it, the transition will continue. BMA!!!!!!
    #Lenny2024!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post



    bingo!  The best success ratio for other CV’s at best has been 60% and somehow with minimal testing this c19 vaccine is 95%!   NOT!!!!!!

    Here is the beauty and pitfall of statistics: maybe it is 95% of the 60%...

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    Lenny I can agree with you that this has caused a lot of damage to this country and herd immunity will work for the masses, but not for all, so maybe herd immunity plus the vaccine can possibly be a better answer. Could we have gotten to herd status sooner it definitely would have help our economy and now add in the vaccine for the vulnerable and all it will. So hopefully with the combination of the two more things will start returning to some form of normal, governments are starting to open thing up more yes to late for some but at least with vaccine they are willing to try.

  87. #87
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    Lenny I can agree with you that this has caused a lot of damage to this country and herd immunity will work for the masses, but not for all, so maybe herd immunity plus the vaccine can possibly be a better answer. Could we have gotten to herd status sooner it definitely would have help our economy and now add in the vaccine for the vulnerable and all it will. So hopefully with the combination of the two more things will start returning to some form of normal, governments are starting to open thing up more yes to late for some but at least with vaccine they are willing to try.
    Thanks for your response. Heard immunity is reached when a significant portion of the population has developed antibodies, whether they’re derived from getting the virus or developing antibodies through a vaccination. Slowing the spread also slows the potential for heard immunity. if over 81% of the population has a 99.7% survivability rate if they contract the virus, the best solution would be to allow the majority to take the risk and develop natural antibodies so they are not a risk to the vulnerable. This is simple science yet for this particular event, we have not practiced that. What we have done is encouraged the vulnerable to walk around with masks thinking they have some form of protection yet they’re still dying unnecessarily. Everything about this is completely backwards just like men and women not knowing what gender they are or the endless pronouns to describe their mental condition. We come to a different place in this era of rational thinking while nothing is off-limits anymore. We must look at the bigger picture and understand that the United States of America is not well received in the world anymore because we represent freedom and a capitalist economic worldview. Globalism is gaining momentum and has a been a huge influence and how we deal with this so-called pandemic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    Thanks for your response. Heard immunity is reached when a significant portion of the population has developed antibodies, whether they’re derived from getting the virus or developing antibodies through a vaccination. Slowing the spread also slows the potential for heard immunity. if over 81% of the population has a 99.7% survivability rate if they contract the virus, the best solution would be to allow the majority to take the risk and develop natural antibodies so they are not a risk to the vulnerable. This is simple science yet for this particular event, we have not practiced that. What we have done is encouraged the vulnerable to walk around with masks thinking they have some form of protection yet they’re still dying unnecessarily. Everything about this is completely backwards just like men and women not knowing what gender they are or the endless pronouns to describe their mental condition. We come to a different place in this era of rational thinking while nothing is off-limits anymore. We must look at the bigger picture and understand that the United States of America is not well received in the world anymore because we represent freedom and a capitalist economic worldview. Globalism is gaining momentum and has a been a huge influence and how we deal with this so-called pandemic.
    AMEN TO THAT!!!! X100,000,000 well said!!!!

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    And now, we will return you to our regular scheduled program, already in progress....."""""" -Mezz

  90. #90
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by mezz View Post
    And now, we will return you to our regular scheduled program, already in progress....."""""" -Mezz
    Hey, I know these topics can be a little disheartening to talk about because we all hold different opinions on these things but everybody’s been respectful even though we may disagree. My hopes are that somebody would seriously challenge me in my position so that I would be forced to rethink it so that if I’m wrong, I would be corrected. I’ll be the first to admit that I’m wrong if the logic that is being presented cannot stand on its own merit. I like Frank’s post because it does challenge us to the fundamentals of some of these principles.  Please don’t let my persistence be discouraging because I don’t intend it to be an argument that is uncomfortable. Let’s just throw out all the ideas and sift through them, seeing where logic stands!




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    So I've had the first shot and am really looking forward to getting the second shot. Its easy to say that 99.7% of the people will survive. Those are very good odds but that's still 990,000 (330,000,000 x .003) deaths. Almost twice as many who have died so far so maybe the measures taken have helped. Do I like the restrictions?? No, I think they suck. I've been wearing a mask at work for a year now, I want to be able to go out and do things, I want to go to football, basketball games, etc... Maybe if we'd opened everything up and not put any preventive measures in place we'd be at herd immunity right now but at what cost? Another 450,000 deaths? Just take Minneapolis and wipe it out? (not really a bad idea but I digress)
    I get it, it sucks. My kids have been robbed of some of their best yrs of school. My daughter basically lost most of her freshman and all of her sophmore yr of college. My son lost a big chunk of his senior yr of high school and actually delayed college for a yr because of this. Its been mishandled from the beginning but we are dealing with something basically unknown without a good plan and people/countries making decisions on the fly with the information changing daily. But we can see the light. Vaccinations are happening, treatments have gotten better, and hopefully this summer will be close to normal.

    So I'll get off my soap box. I agree with both sides here. I'm choosing to get vaccinated because its the right choice for me and my family.


  92. #92
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    Elf, you make some good points so let’s examine them and see if the stand to the scrutiny.  Looking at the 99.7% survivability rate, slowing the spread prevents the healthy population from developing natural immunity.  Keep in mind that we would do like we have in the past which is strongly encourage/emphasize to the vulnerable the risks so they can take preventative measures.  So basically those with the most to loose would need to take responsibility for their lives while a much smaller stimulus would provide fir the needs of the vulnerable. Again, if the majority of the independent vulnerable folks took the same precautions, their risk is deeply diminished.  The majority of the population who is very low risk would deal with the virus favorable therefor presenting themselves to the vulnerable as low/no risk.

    you’re looking at a death rate over an extensive period of time. With our current approach, the healthy population would have easily transmitted this within 3 to 4 months and developed heard immunity quickly.  One thing that you’re saying that I think does not fly at all is that there’s so much that we don’t know about this. We’ve dealt with coronavirus’s for a very long time and this one isn’t all that much different so the fundamentals are all there but by saying that we don’t know much about it, we kind of indict ourselves into playing it up for whatever reason.  There is something very strange about this entire ordeal that is highly suspect from start to finish. Also, are you taking into account the billions and billions of dollars of collateral damage, loss a business, suicides, alcoholism, drug abuse, child abuse etc.? 

  93. #93
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    So we are both making lots of assumptions here and as I said, I see both sides of it and agree with both sides of it. I wasn't the one who threw out the 99.7% survivability rate. But when you put it in actual deaths its a big #. We assume the vulnerable would do extra measures to protect themselves but who knows? And yes, we've been dealing with coronaviruses forever and will continue to but the differences between them is where the differences are. The flu  is a coronavirus, much less lethal, but still a coronavirus. Slowing the spread may slow the natural immunity but 99.7% is still the same, it doesn't get better if natural immunity gets here faster. There are still people with underlying conditions that make up that .003% and will die regardless from it. 
    And you're correct, I'm not taking in the cost to world economy, the trillions of dollars lost, the large and small businesses that have had to close, the people who've lost their jobs. But every time you/I  try to put a dollar figure on a life lost we look like blood suckers. But knowing right now for the company I work for just the supply chain issues we've had its a tremendous challenge. And its due to all of this. Whether government put restrictions in place, whether facilities are running at 60% capacity because of people being out sick, all of these are causing problems. The worldwide chip problem, ports backed up for weeks, are just a few of the issues. But the pandemic has disrupted business across the globe and cost trillions.
    So I'm not arguing your position because I see it. And I agree with a lot of it. 

  94. #94
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    I will get my 2nd Pfizer vaccine shot tomorrow. I'm looking forward to it.

  95. #95
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by elf View Post
    So we are both making lots of assumptions here and as I said, I see both sides of it and agree with both sides of it. I wasn't the one who threw out the 99.7% survivability rate. But when you put it in actual deaths its a big #. We assume the vulnerable would do extra measures to protect themselves but who knows? And yes, we've been dealing with coronaviruses forever and will continue to but the differences between them is where the differences are. The flu is a coronavirus, much less lethal, but still a coronavirus. Slowing the spread may slow the natural immunity but 99.7% is still the same, it doesn't get better if natural immunity gets here faster. There are still people with underlying conditions that make up that .003% and will die regardless from it.
    And you're correct, I'm not taking in the cost to world economy, the trillions of dollars lost, the large and small businesses that have had to close, the people who've lost their jobs. But every time you/I try to put a dollar figure on a life lost we look like blood suckers. But knowing right now for the company I work for just the supply chain issues we've had its a tremendous challenge. And its due to all of this. Whether government put restrictions in place, whether facilities are running at 60% capacity because of people being out sick, all of these are causing problems. The worldwide chip problem, ports backed up for weeks, are just a few of the issues. But the pandemic has disrupted business across the globe and cost trillions.
    So I'm not arguing your position because I see it. And I agree with a lot of it.

    The 99.7% is from the CDC. This 99.7% represents the survivors of those 70 years old and younger, which is about 81% of the population. So with that in mind, think about what I’m saying here. Those 70 and under in age would not be subject to lock down, social distances etc so therefore the lack of mitigation would result in an epidemic. So what I’m saying is keep business as usual, protect and provide for the vulnerable, the healthy have moderate, mild or no symptoms and the virus makes its rounds. There is no assumption in saying the virus would indeed spread quickly if we do not prohibit its spread.
    Lastly, as I said multiple times now, the method in which Covid deaths are recorded is severely skewed. If I were pressed to make the assumption of how skewed the number actually is, I would be willing to put a wager on 35%. Will there be a day when some of these facts will be known, I would say so. What assumptions do you see me making that create as issue?

  96. #96
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    So far a nice lively discussion. It's great we can debate freely about something intensely important. I agree a lot of "information is bull" but I will still get the shot for a comfort mind set. As for the unknown cause of who, what, why , follow the money!

  97. #97
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by dj2muchjunk View Post
    So far a nice lively discussion. It's great we can debate freely about something intensely important. I agree a lot of "information is bull" but I will still get the shot for a comfort mind set. As for the unknown cause of who, what, why , follow the money!

    100% agreed!  I’ve spent a great deal of time in rigorous debate on the topic of religious doctrine, specifically on the topic of Arminianism, calvinism and traditionalism.  Without any types of debate, we understand each other to a lesser degree.  Communication is key while civility and respect keep the debate alive.  Thanks for your input! 

  98. #98
    lenny Guest

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    Elf, one more aspect to consider; the 99.7% figure is for those who are 70 and under who get the virus.  Keep in mind need 60-70 % of the population to be able to have antibodies to reach heard immunity.  So your figure included 100% of the 70 years old and younger.  With that in mind, consider the inflated number of actual COVID deaths to deaths with covid.  Between those to aspects, the numbers drop significantly.  

  99. #99
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    I always try to boil down problems into simplified information to then see where the logic can take me. You can walk the various paths and each starts to validate itself or begins to present further hurdles which in as much itself narrows the likelihood of probability.

    We know Sweden took the approach of keeping open with warnings to the vulnerable population. Michigan was on the opposite side of that approach. Sweden has a population of roughly 10MM, has 732k confirmed cases and 13k deaths. Michigan has a population of roughly 10MM, has 618k confirmed cases and 16k deaths.

    When I was last working out of a office 2006-2015, I observed the population between 30-40 being what I would describe as germaphobes. Used paper towels opening doors and hand sanitizer. This was done as they told me because they had young children and were trying to avoid getting them sick. FYI, that population spent the most time out of the office nursing their children or themselves from illnesses. 

    During my period of life where my children were that similar age I was commuting by train into Chicago (17 yrs period). During that 17 years I was not sick (other than calling in saying I was). My children had perfect attendance in school without a day missed through high school. I will note that 2 years after I started on the train the following occurred. I tested positive for the TB germ (inactive) as we became certified to run a daycare in our home. The doctors suspected it was acquired on the train by being next to someone infected and coughing day after day. Had to be, people coughed and sneezed all the time and we were all creatures of habit in the train cars where we rode daily. 

    When one of the children my wife was watching in daycare developed measles a warning flag went out. We were surprised when the neighbor across the street called to say she wanted to bring her children over. See Janet came from a family of 8 siblings and she said whenever anyone got sick it was the family's practice to rub faces. Get the cold, flu whatever through the family all at once so it didn't drag out. Her children and ours all ended up with mild cases of the measles. Interesting approach that worked.

    Last year I attended several auto races (August & October). None of the people I friended knew of a employee, neighbor, family member that had covid. These people came from all around the country and generally resided in the major cities. The most profound was a friend I have camped by for the last 15 years. He had recently returned last June from living in Italy for 2 years. His wife is a head HR associate and their family was moved there for this 2 year stint. We conversed regularly while they were in lockdown. Other interesting facts are they never knew anyone that developed covid in Italy nor did her company have any employees with it....

    Lets remember that the media and politicians wether in one camp or the other are out for your attention. Media for the proverbial corporate greed of revenue and politicians for greed and power.

    Based on the above as well as arguments made by some of the folks on here, this is why it all remains mirky.


  100. #100
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    Does anyone actually Believe the reported COVID death toll? I don’t. It’s been said here and many other places so I’m not the first but it’s a huge difference between dying from COVID vs with COVID. Much of the discussion below assumes the death toll is real and that that number is actual deaths due to COVID. IMO If you narrow that number down to actual deaths FROM COVID that drastically changes the dynamics of the conversation.

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