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Thread: Vacine Shot

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfattack View Post
    Does anyone actually Believe the reported COVID death toll? I don’t. It’s been said here and many other places so I’m not the first but it’s a huge difference between dying from COVID vs with COVID. Much of the discussion below assumes the death toll is real and that that number is actual deaths due to COVID. IMO If you narrow that number down to actual deaths FROM COVID that drastically changes the dynamics of the conversation.
    100% agree with this! With Hospitals actually making more money due to the way things are "coded" there definitely is a difference between died from COVID or "with" COVID.

  2. #102
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    I definitely will not be getting the vaccine. I spoke with a cabinet maker around 2010 that got a "bad" strain of the FLU vaccine & spent over a month in the hospital and nearly died multiple times while there. Pretty much has "sealed the deal" for me on that.(I had not ever got the FLU vaccine at that point, but was thinking of it as my employer offers it free of charge.)
    I'm not "knocking" anyone that wants to get it, you do you & what works best for you. As for me, I will take my chances!

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfattack View Post
    Does anyone actually Believe the reported COVID death toll? I don’t. It’s been said here and many other places so I’m not the first but it’s a huge difference between dying from COVID vs with COVID. Much of the discussion below assumes the death toll is real and that that number is actual deaths due to COVID. IMO If you narrow that number down to actual deaths FROM COVID that drastically changes the dynamics of the conversation.
    <br><br>Agree. Another area the data falls apart is positive tests. My wife had to test 3 days prior to her surgery. If she was positive, they wait 10 days and in she goes with no retest. So does it now only last 10 days versus 15 vs 30? And you automatically given a get out of jail free? Which&nbsp;brings me to when they once tracked recoveries. So no follow up tests were given to people that tested or had symptoms. As the data was provided here in Michigan back in summer, the math didn’t match up to positive cases assuming a recovery after 30 days to declare someone recovered. So people recovered after 45 days to 2 months.<br><br>So if positive cases is a ongoing accumulation of positive tests how can you determine active cases without retesting? It doesn’t matter Because presenting total positive tests is far more compelling and dramatic than understanding active/ongoing cases. Scare tactics.<br><br>Which gets us to today, now the media and politicians talk to “doses” administered which supports their theme/agenda. Look how great we are now and fulfilling our prophecy to the people.&nbsp;<br><br>I learned about quantitative methods back in college. Hence my understanding it truly is garbage in garbage out. You can use it to support both sides and no matter which way you look at it we are presented with an embellishment of the data to support whatever they want the masses to believe.<br> <br>

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by dfattack View Post
    Does anyone actually Believe the reported COVID death toll? I don’t. It’s been said here and many other places so I’m not the first but it’s a huge difference between dying from COVID vs with COVID. Much of the discussion below assumes the death toll is real and that that number is actual deaths due to COVID. IMO If you narrow that number down to actual deaths FROM COVID that drastically changes the dynamics of the conversation.
    In all actuality, the "correct count" is really irrelevant. 560,000 deaths vs lets say 300,000. Really? My question is, how many deaths does it take before we will react to not only preserving our own health & welfare much less that, all those around us, not to mention immediate family? Despite the so called accuracy of the death count, we should all be diligent in preserving life as we knew it. This has me wondering where our alliances are when it comes to an issue of global concern much less our very own. We support our local business, friends, neighbors, & fellow snowmobilers in times of crisis. I hate to say it, but this pandemic situation is no different. We need to be diligent for all of our sake, because without the aforementioned, we would have nobody to support for any reason, nobody. Peace out. -Mezz

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by wiviperman View Post
    100% agree with this! With Hospitals actually making more money due to the way things are "coded" there definitely is a difference between died from COVID or "with" COVID.
    Please explain the "coded" comment to me. Are you seriously suggesting that there is a "covid" box that a hospital checks to get paid a bounty?

  6. #106
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    Hi Lenny!
    Been staying out of this, but something for you to think about, and remember, I was a market research dweeb by trade.
    You cannot use your survivability rate of 99.whatever% as a projectible predictor. Why Not? Because it is the result of current behavior, i.e. offices closed, airplanes not flying, schools closed, masks, etc. These are known as "causal factors". If you change the causal factors, as in open the economy, you will get a different result. Therefore, you can only project your survivability rate maintaining current behavior. Change the behavior and the test rate is no longer projectible.

    This post is not endorsing one course of action over another, just reminding people that a change in behavior yields a different result, thus negating the projectibilty of the initial result.

    Hope you and all are well, Lenny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsnomo View Post
    Please explain the "coded" comment to me. Are you seriously suggesting that there is a "covid" box that a hospital checks to get paid a bounty?
    If I understood my nurse friend correctly, yes, they created a new code to be used on the death chart for "Covid".

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr440 View Post
    If I understood my nurse friend correctly, yes, they created a new code to be used on the death chart for "Covid".
    Ok, the claim made in the other post said hospitals get paid extra for checking the box. So, checking the box pays a bounty, which I find very hard to believe.
    Last edited by dcsnomo; 03-19-2021 at 05:50 PM.

  9. #109
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    My perfectly healthy great aunt finished getting her 2nd dose of the vaccine within the past week or 2 and is currently hospitalized after fainting and passing out a couple days ago. Doctors won’t give us squat for information on what is wrong. She is truly confused as to what happened because she was one of the healthiest ~80 year olds you’d ever meet. She was moved to a rehab center and there’s a chance she may not make it through, saddest part is due to covid protocols she has to “quarantine” there for 14 days before anyone can visit her and like I said there’s a chance she may not make it... Not my only vaccine story for the week either... Girfriends coworker has a 78 year old neighbor who most would think she is 55. Apparently the coworker even goes on runs with this 78 year old, she’s that healthy. She got her 2nd dose I believe she said Monday or Tuesday and passed away yesterday due to an infection from the vaccine, she’s from the Neenah area. Won’t hear it on the news though and it’s so unfortunate the countries entire narrative has switched to push this vaccine down our throats. These 2 events have sealed the deal for me, and I will NOT become someone’s guinea pig. We’ve been dealing with this scamdemic for a year now and if you made it this long without “getting covid” chances are you have the antibodies in your system already and should be getting tested to see if you do indeed have them before even THINKING about jumping in line for this unproven vaccine... Sorry if my comments come off as harsh but I don’t know how to word how I feel about this at the moment in any other way... Know what’s even worse than hearing this news? The fact that I don’t even personally know a single person who has died from or even was hospitalized with any symptoms worse than a common cold because of “covid” in the past year.
    Last edited by indy_500; 03-19-2021 at 08:10 PM.

  10. #110
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    13,000 for a covid hospital case. 40,000 if they can get you on a ventilator.

  11. #111
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    Codeing referes to medicade reimbursement. They made it a money grab. Thats whats driving all the questionable numbers.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thats why everyone has to wait for their non life threatening procedures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by indy_500 View Post
    My perfectly healthy great aunt finished getting her 2nd dose of the vaccine within the past week or 2 and is currently hospitalized after fainting and passing out a couple days ago. Doctors won’t give us squat for information on what is wrong. She is truly confused as to what happened because she was one of the healthiest ~80 year olds you’d ever meet. She was moved to a rehab center and there’s a chance she may not make it through … Girfriends [sic] coworker has a 78 year old neighbor who most would think she is 55. Apparently the coworker even goes on runs with this 78 year old, she’s that healthy. She got her 2nd dose I believe she said Monday or Tuesday and passed away yesterday due to an infection from the vaccine …
    Well that narrative sure ain't very encouraging, says this 80 year old!

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsnomo View Post
    Hi Lenny!


    Been staying out of this, but something for you to think about, and remember, I was a market research dweeb by trade.


    You cannot use your survivability rate of 99.whatever% as a projectible predictor. Why Not? Because it is the result of current behavior, i.e. offices closed, airplanes not flying, schools closed, masks, etc. These are known as "causal factors". If you change the causal factors, as in open the economy, you will get a different result. Therefore, you can only project your survivability rate maintaining current behavior. Change the behavior and the test rate is no longer projectible.





    This post is not endorsing one course of action over another, just reminding people that a change in behavior yields a different result, thus negating the projectibilty of the initial result.





    Hope you and all are well, Lenny.
    Hey old buddy! I’m doing great and I hope you be are also. I’m not 100% sure I understand what your saying, here’s why. The 99.7% figure is for those who become infected. It’s not a percentage of who may become infected. So what the CDC is saying is that if anyone under 70 gets COVID-19, they have a 99.7% chance of surviving. In this case, behavior is irrelevant because the focus of the referenced percentage is based on health, not the risk of catching the virus. Hope this helps buddy! Are you still over in Door county?
    Last edited by lenny; 03-19-2021 at 11:15 PM.

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezz View Post
    In all actuality, the "correct count" is really irrelevant. 560,000 deaths vs lets say 300,000. Really? My question is, how many deaths does it take before we will react to not only preserving our own health & welfare much less that, all those around us, not to mention immediate family? Despite the so called accuracy of the death count, we should all be diligent in preserving life as we knew it. This has me wondering where our alliances are when it comes to an issue of global concern much less our very own. We support our local business, friends, neighbors, & fellow snowmobilers in times of crisis. I hate to say it, but this pandemic situation is no different. We need to be diligent for all of our sake, because without the aforementioned, we would have nobody to support for any reason, nobody. Peace out. -Mezz
    Hey Mezz.
    At first glance, your perspective seems attractive but please allow me to offer my perspective. Let’s talk mitigation. Typically in America, when we are sick, we are for the most part diligent in protecting others. We stay home from work. We stay away from going out to see family so we don’t get others sick. We wash hands and literally do our best to not get others sick. What I just described is the typical approach BEFORE COVID. Now that COVID is here, we added masks and mass shut downs. The collateral damage is immense and staggering. When we compare shut downs to open states or countries, the open populations fare as well or better than the shut down populations. So you add all the collateral damage for no gain in preventing deaths. Do you see the problem we create?

    Yes, it sounds proper and nobel but in reality, unlimited lockdown only adds to the destruction. The single most important factor in this whole scenario in the individuals health prior to infection. Unlimited lockdown is literally a violation of human right and for this reason, the courts are siding with the citizens, not those who abuse authority and subject citizens to tyranny.

    Summary; unproven mitigation only compounds the damage and causes disastrous unintended consequences. The best way to handle this is to protect the vulnerable, reach heard immunity as fast as possible with the least amount of collateral damage. Looking at the states and countries that didn’t shut down clearly indicate that there is no advantage to limit activity of the entire population.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsnomo View Post

    You cannot use your survivability rate of 99.whatever% as a projectible predictor. Why Not? Because it is the result of current behavior, i.e. offices closed, airplanes not flying, schools closed, masks, etc. These are known as "causal factors". If you change the causal factors, as in open the economy, you will get a different result. Therefore, you can only project your survivability rate maintaining current behavior. Change the behavior and the test rate is no longer projectible.
    While your presumption sounds naturally sensible, whose to really say that all of the aforementioned factors truly helped the cause? If you compare covid cases & deaths of states who had very low restrictions like Florida for example, they fared a lot better than many states like New York who were practically locked down Marshall law style for awhile... This entire thing is new to everyone, I get it, but there is no factual information proving that masks, lockdowns, and social distancing help anything but pushing off the inevitable for a little bit of time... This thing is a virus that’s not going to disappear today, tomorrow, next year, or even for this next decade. Do I wish it would? Heck yeah but continuing to destroy the economy that every last American should want to see thrive at the cost of a virus that is 99.7% survivable just seems extremely backwards. Many Americans have lost their jobs due to this unfortunate ordeal, in turn losing their income AND their way of life. The cost of many necessities have skyrocketed to the point many have had to cutback on doing things they love because they simply can no longer afford to do it. Let’s also think about the effect of for example, the cost of lumber. Prices have quadrupled. The American dream of many, to build a new home, has now gone out the window for most. Experts don’t believe the prices will ever come down again either. Did this just affect potential new home buyers? NO what about the builders trying to make a living? How do you make a living when nobody can afford to build new homes? All of these things happened over the mass panic over a 99.7% survivable virus. I realize I’m starting to get a little off topic over the vaccine, just some excellent food for thought in my opinion...

    On the contrary, pertaining to the vaccine, I had read that there have been over 1500 Americans who have died from vaccine complications so far. Do I know for certain that number is factual? I do not. But let’s say the information I read is true. Those 1500 people have survived a 99.7% survivable virus thus far. Let’s apply that 99.7% number to those individuals. 1495 should have survived the virus HAD they contracted it. 5 would have passed. For all we know the 1500 could’ve been people in somewhat poor health to begin with? We will never know unfortunately.

    Everybody’s situation is different and we all have to respect that, I’m just trying to give my input on the matter for others to look at from possibly a different angle.

    Another tidbit I’d like to share, is that I have been a fortunate one so far. I have not missed a minute of work due to the matter, am still working 48 hrs a week, with 150 other maskless people, I have hardly changed a thing in my daily life, even eating out at restaurants probably MORE often than before, which is enjoyable to be surrounded by other smiling people. Was also surrounded by thousands of different people at baseball tournaments all last summer coaching. Have yet to contract it. Where am I going with this? Will everyone be as lucky as me? No. Do I expect others to live the way I do since I’m doing fine? Absolutely not, but that should be the greatest part about us all living in America! Ok I’ll stop rambling now... I blame the pain meds from my knee surgery today!
    Last edited by indy_500; 03-20-2021 at 12:19 AM.

  16. #116
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    #Lenny/Indy2024

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsnomo View Post
    Ok, the claim made in the other post said hospitals get paid extra for checking the box. So, checking the box pays a bounty, which I find very hard to believe.
    Well why else would they put the code on the person? Just for the CDC to count? Someone else said it above: follow the money. Why would they create a “Covid” bill to help people if there is no way to collect money?? You find that hard to believe?? Where have you been the last 12 months?? Hospitals were and still are getting $$ for each Covid case.

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    Lenny, I will have to disagree with you on your post where you said people did there diligence when sick in the past and stay home, in all my years of work most will go to work sick because they can’t afford to take a day off or it’s harder to get caught up or better yet I rather use sick days for vacation days not being sick! Now maybe they will avoid family but not work unless they are on their death bed. Now maybe with what has happened people will actually respect others when they are sick and stay home instead of bringing it to work or even better sending there sick kids to school because they don’t want to stay home and use a sick day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mezz View Post
    In all actuality, the "correct count" is really irrelevant. 560,000 deaths vs lets say 300,000. Really? My question is, how many deaths does it take before we will react to not only preserving our own health & welfare much less that, all those around us, not to mention immediate family? Despite the so called accuracy of the death count, we should all be diligent in preserving life as we knew it. This has me wondering where our alliances are when it comes to an issue of global concern much less our very own. We support our local business, friends, neighbors, & fellow snowmobilers in times of crisis. I hate to say it, but this pandemic situation is no different. We need to be diligent for all of our sake, because without the aforementioned, we would have nobody to support for any reason, nobody. Peace out. -Mezz
    X2, you said it all! Stated perfectly!

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    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by mezz View Post
    In all actuality, the "correct count" is really irrelevant. 560,000 deaths vs lets say 300,000. Really? My question is, how many deaths does it take before we will react to not only preserving our own health & welfare much less that, all those around us, not to mention immediate family? Despite the so called accuracy of the death count, we should all be diligent in preserving life as we knew it. This has me wondering where our alliances are when it comes to an issue of global concern much less our very own. We support our local business, friends, neighbors, & fellow snowmobilers in times of crisis. I hate to say it, but this pandemic situation is no different. We need to be diligent for all of our sake, because without the aforementioned, we would have nobody to support for any reason, nobody. Peace out. -Mezz
    Not really sure what you mean.

    I think you are saying the death count doesn't matter...meaning even if the number was 100 we had to do something. I agree, but what I was suggesting is that there is always going to be deaths be it natural, due to flue, cancer, car crashes etc. We also apparently have covid type viruses all the time which I didn't know. Once you filter out the deaths that would have occurred anyway, I believe the deaths from covid was significantly less that the overblown (my opinion) half million death count. With that said, with such a small chance of dying from covid why take the shot if you are not a high risk individual? Again, my opinion and hope I understood you correctly. If not, my apologies

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by mezz View Post
    In all actuality, the "correct count" is really irrelevant. 560,000 deaths vs lets say 300,000. Really? My question is, how many deaths does it take before we will react to not only preserving our own health & welfare much less that, all those around us, not to mention immediate family? Despite the so called accuracy of the death count, we should all be diligent in preserving life as we knew it. This has me wondering where our alliances are when it comes to an issue of global concern much less our very own. We support our local business, friends, neighbors, & fellow snowmobilers in times of crisis. I hate to say it, but this pandemic situation is no different. We need to be diligent for all of our sake, because without the aforementioned, we would have nobody to support for any reason, nobody. Peace out. -Mezz
    Are we all willing to wear face diapers and practice social distancing to "save" us from every airborne pathogen out there, from here on out? Discovered, and yet to be disovered? Because if we're not (and count me among the not), then doing it just for covid is hypocritical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsnomo View Post
    Please explain the "coded" comment to me. Are you seriously suggesting that there is a "covid" box that a hospital checks to get paid a bounty?
    Oh yes. not limited to hospitals...Doctors too. I know this for a fact. it's either $8,000 or $10,000 per doctor

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    Quote Originally Posted by indy_500 View Post
    My perfectly healthy great aunt finished getting her 2nd dose of the vaccine within the past week or 2 and is currently hospitalized after fainting and passing out a couple days ago. Doctors won’t give us squat for information on what is wrong. She is truly confused as to what happened because she was one of the healthiest ~80 year olds you’d ever meet. She was moved to a rehab center and there’s a chance she may not make it through, saddest part is due to covid protocols she has to “quarantine” there for 14 days before anyone can visit her and like I said there’s a chance she may not make it... Not my only vaccine story for the week either... Girfriends coworker has a 78 year old neighbor who most would think she is 55. Apparently the coworker even goes on runs with this 78 year old, she’s that healthy. She got her 2nd dose I believe she said Monday or Tuesday and passed away yesterday due to an infection from the vaccine, she’s from the Neenah area. Won’t hear it on the news though and it’s so unfortunate the countries entire narrative has switched to push this vaccine down our throats. These 2 events have sealed the deal for me, and I will NOT become someone’s guinea pig. We’ve been dealing with this scamdemic for a year now and if you made it this long without “getting covid” chances are you have the antibodies in your system already and should be getting tested to see if you do indeed have them before even THINKING about jumping in line for this unproven vaccine... Sorry if my comments come off as harsh but I don’t know how to word how I feel about this at the moment in any other way... Know what’s even worse than hearing this news? The fact that I don’t even personally know a single person who has died from or even was hospitalized with any symptoms worse than a common cold because of “covid” in the past year.
    Thank you for sharing Indy and sorry to hear what you are going through. It's real life stories like this that people need to hear so they can make their own decisions and not be forced to take it. Previous vaccines took years of tests on lab rats and human trials before asking society to take a vaccine. This whole process is premature. I'm OK with incentivizing the pharmaceutical companies to find a vaccine just not forcing anyone to take. We aren't there yet but seems like we will end up there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by russholio View Post
    Are we all willing to wear face diapers and practice social distancing to "save" us from every airborne pathogen out there, from here on out? Discovered, and yet to be disovered? Because if we're not (and count me among the not), then doing it just for covid is hypocritical.
    Oh so true

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    Hey old buddy! I’m doing great and I hope you be are also. I’m not 100% sure I understand what your saying, here’s why. The 99.7% figure is for those who become infected. It’s not a percentage of who may become infected. So what the CDC is saying is that if anyone under 70 gets COVID-19, they have a 99.7% chance of surviving. In this case, behavior is irrelevant because the focus of the referenced percentage is based on health, not the risk of catching the virus. Hope this helps buddy! Are you still over in Door county?
    Yeah, still in Door County, kinda! Sold the motel 4 yrs ago, so I spend a couple months a year in San Diego. Life is good, health is good, about all an old guy could wish for!

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    Quote Originally Posted by russholio View Post
    Are we all willing to wear face diapers and practice social distancing to "save" us from every airborne pathogen out there, from here on out? Discovered, and yet to be disovered? Because if we're not (and count me among the not), then doing it just for covid is hypocritical.
    Maybe we will. It's a big world out there and they don't all act like us. In Japan people wear masks in crowded situations regularly. Maybe riding a crowded subway in NY with a cold and no mask is wrong. Maybe going to the gym when you have a cold is wrong. Maybe, just maybe some of our behaviors need to change. Not all the world is Michigan fresh air and a solo ride in an F150 to get to work.

    I'm living in a metro area of 3.3 million people, and yeah, if you have a cold please put on a mask before getting on the trolley.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfattack View Post
    Oh yes. not limited to hospitals...Doctors too. I know this for a fact. it's either $8,000 or $10,000 per doctor
    Still doesn't answer my question. The poster said hospitals get paid more for the same treatment if they claim covid. In other words, a heart attack patient on a ventilator becomes more profitable if he morphs into a covid patient given the same treatment. I don't believe it.

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    Getting the vaccine certainly is a personal choice. I got it because I am 68 years old and I travel, mostly to cities. Also, life expectancy is 77 years so I've only got 9 years to "bonus time". If the vaccine causes my johnson to fall off in 10 years oh well. If I was early 30s, with a relatively patterned life amongst the same people, same places, and 50 years ahead of me I would wait it out.

    Some of you are posting about not knowing anyone who got covid, or got seriously ill. Let me give you the old guy experience. About 25 people I know have had it, three seriously ill, one recovered fully, one on long term oxygen, one dead.

    I don't want to catch this in the last decade or so of my life, I worked 50 years to get here and I'm gonna sprint to the finish line in my own style.

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    Quote Originally Posted by russholio View Post
    Are we all willing to wear face diapers and practice social distancing to "save" us from every airborne pathogen out there, from here on out? Discovered, and yet to be disovered? Because if we're not (and count me among the not), then doing it just for covid is hypocritical.
    EXACTLY!!! but wait!!! it completely eradicated the flu that on average has killed half a million people world wide each year!!!! YEAH RIGHT!!!

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsnomo View Post
    Getting the vaccine certainly is a personal choice. I got it because I am 68 years old and I travel, mostly to cities. Also, life expectancy is 77 years so I've only got 9 years to "bonus time". If the vaccine causes my johnson to fall off in 10 years oh well. If I was early 30s, with a relatively patterned life amongst the same people, same places, and 50 years ahead of me I would wait it out.



    Some of you are posting about not knowing anyone who got covid, or got seriously ill. Let me give you the old guy experience. About 25 people I know have had it, three seriously ill, one recovered fully, one on long term oxygen, one dead.



    I don't want to catch this in the last decade or so of my life, I worked 50 years to get here and I'm gonna sprint to the finish line in my own style.
    You make a very important point. This is precisely why we need a comprehensive approach to these types of crisis. What you illustrate is the need for older folk, anybody who has a higher risk of damage or death to take the precautions WITH HELP IF NEEDED in order to come out of this with the least amount of negative effects of all this. What we have done is subjected the entire country to something that a smaller segment only needed to be concerned about. With that said, we created unnecessary collateral damage that proved to be in ineffective. How could any governor of any state think that you could put the most vulnerable people in an environment with a high risk? Do you see the problem there? This is not a one size fits all situation. So what I observe happening is not just simple mistakes, I think they are rather deliberate and exhibiting the effects and desires of a transformation of our current political/governmental system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsnomo View Post
    Still doesn't answer my question. The poster said hospitals get paid more for the same treatment if they claim covid. In other words, a heart attack patient on a ventilator becomes more profitable if he morphs into a covid patient given the same treatment. I don't believe it.
    I have heard nurses call into radio talk shows that have confirmed this and it's actually worse. One nurse in particular was upset about what was going on in the hospital she works at. One person in a particular wing tested positive so the staff was directed to count the entire wing (patients) as if infected since they were assumed to eventually test positive due to proximity of a positive test. That is one of the reason positive test results continued to soar and yes the hospitals (and doctors) get money when this happens.

    Another thing, my office manager's friend wasn't feeling well last year. She didn't want to go to the hospital since this was all new so she called her old (retired) doctor at home. She told him how she felt and he said she should go to the hospital. So she did. When she checked in the Hospital asked what doctor sent her in and the lady told the staff her ex doctor who's retired told her to. She was asked for the doctor's name anyway. Within a week or so the retired doctor received a check for either $8,000 or $10,000. Yes it happened that fast. unbelievable...

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    Whoa, radio talk shows now? Radio talk shows are a real source of Fantasy Land BS. It's way over the top now, eh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Whoa, radio talk shows now? Radio talk shows are a real source of Fantasy Land BS. It's way over the top now, eh!
    it was either on rush’s show or mark levin’s. Neither is over the top Abe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfattack View Post
    Thank you for sharing Indy and sorry to hear what you are going through. It's real life stories like this that people need to hear so they can make their own decisions and not be forced to take it. Previous vaccines took years of tests on lab rats and human trials before asking society to take a vaccine. This whole process is premature. I'm OK with incentivizing the pharmaceutical companies to find a vaccine just not forcing anyone to take. We aren't there yet but seems like we will end up there.
    >Quote Originally Posted by indy_500 View Post
    My perfectly healthy great aunt finished getting her 2nd dose of the vaccine within the past week or 2 and is currently hospitalized after fainting and passing out a couple days ago. Doctors won’t give us squat for information on what is wrong. She is truly confused as to what happened because she was one of the healthiest ~80 year olds you’d ever meet. She was moved to a rehab center and there’s a chance she may not make it through, saddest part is due to covid protocols she has to “quarantine” there for 14 days before anyone can visit her and like I said there’s a chance she may not make it... Not my only vaccine story for the week either... Girfriends coworker has a 78 year old neighbor who most would think she is 55. Apparently the coworker even goes on runs with this 78 year old, she’s that healthy. She got her 2nd dose I believe she said Monday or Tuesday and passed away yesterday due to an infection from the vaccine, she’s from the Neenah area. Won’t hear it on the news though and it’s so unfortunate the countries entire narrative has switched to push this vaccine down our throats. These 2 events have sealed the deal for me, and I will NOT become someone’s guinea pig. We’ve been dealing with this scamdemic for a year now and if you made it this long without “getting covid” chances are you have the antibodies in your system already and should be getting tested to see if you do indeed have them before even THINKING about jumping in line for this unproven vaccine... Sorry if my comments come off as harsh but I don’t know how to word how I feel about this at the moment in any other way... Know what’s even worse than hearing this news? The fact that I don’t even personally know a single person who has died from or even was hospitalized with any symptoms worse than a common cold because of “covid” in the past year.<



    Won't see me getting any vaccine either....they can "practice their brand of medicine" on all you other brave ones, until they get it all perfected. At that point, I'll be in. I've been healthy thru this whole ordeal, and I'm not taking any chances on experimental vaccines, I've heard way too many stories like Indy's above.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr440 View Post
    Well why else would they put the code on the person? Just for the CDC to count? Someone else said it above: follow the money. Why would they create a “Covid” bill to help people if there is no way to collect money?? You find that hard to believe?? Where have you been the last 12 months?? Hospitals were and still are getting $$ for each Covid case.
    You are not following my point. I know hospitals get paid to treat covid. Hospitals get paid for services provided. One day in an ICU bed is the same rate for a heart attack, a car accident, or a covid case. Yes, covid treatment may involve a lot more services, hence a higher bill. But I disagree that the RATE charged for a service for a covid patient is a higher RATE than any other patient for the same service. Yes the total might be higher at the end due to more treatment, but I doubt that there is a premium charged due to illness type.

    Let's stop this part of the discussion, Ok? Getting nowhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfattack View Post
    it was either on rush’s show or mark levin’s. Neither is over the top Abe.
    You go right ahead and listen to, and believe those two all you want. I ditched them long ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    You go right ahead and listen to, and believe those two all you want. I ditched them long ago.
    You're gonna have a really hard time listening to Lush Rimbaugh any more!

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcsnomo View Post
    Maybe we will. It's a big world out there and they don't all act like us. In Japan people wear masks in crowded situations regularly. Maybe riding a crowded subway in NY with a cold and no mask is wrong. Maybe going to the gym when you have a cold is wrong. Maybe, just maybe some of our behaviors need to change. Not all the world is Michigan fresh air and a solo ride in an F150 to get to work.

    I'm living in a metro area of 3.3 million people, and yeah, if you have a cold please put on a mask before getting on the trolley.
    Good for you. Don't look down on me because I won't.

  40. #140
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    I don’t think we want to get into the efficacy of masks,,,,,

    if we did, I think many of us would be severely disappointed or even disturbed over it. I’ve been studying this since the third week in March,,,, a year ago. Just search this out on the web and see what you come up with, it’s not what you’re going to think. Random clinical trials are the ones that you want to take a look at because they are non bias.

    here’s just a cut and paste from the results in the conclusion on cloth masks back in 2015.

    Results The rates of all infection outcomes were highest in the cloth mask arm, with the rate of ILI statistically significantly higher in the cloth mask arm (relative risk (RR)=13.00, 95% CI 1.69 to 100.07) compared with the medical mask arm. Cloth masks also had significantly higher rates of ILI compared with the control arm. An analysis by mask use showed ILI (RR=6.64, 95% CI 1.45 to 28.65) and laboratory-confirmed virus (RR=1.72, 95% CI 1.01 to 2.94) were significantly higher in the cloth masks group compared with the medical masks group. Penetration of cloth masks by particles was almost 97% and medical masks 44%.

    Conclusions This study is the first RCT of cloth masks, and the results caution against the use of cloth masks. This is an important finding to inform occupational health and safety. Moisture retention, reuse of cloth masks and poor filtration may result in increased risk of infection. Further research is needed to inform the widespread use of cloth masks globally. However, as a precautionary measure, cloth masks should not be recommended for HCWs, particularly in high-risk situations, and guidelines need to be updated.

    —————————————

    Since this article was written, there has been an update in reference to cover 19 and here’s what they say;



    • Published on: 30 March 2020
      COVID-19, shortages of masks and the use of cloth masks as a last resort




      Critical shortages of personal protective equipment (PPE) have resulted in the US Centers for Disease Control downgrading their recommendations for health workers treating COVID-19 patients from respirators to surgical masks and finally to home-made cloth masks. As authors of the only published randomised controlled clinical trial of cloth masks, we have been getting daily emails about this from health workers concerned about using cloth masks. The study found that cloth mask wearers had higher rates of infection than even the standard practice control group of health workers, and the filtration provided by cloth masks was poor compared to surgical masks. At the time of the study, there had been very little work done in this space, and so little thought into how to improve the protective value of the cloth masks. Until now, most guidelines on PPE did not even mention cloth masks, despite many health workers in Asia using them.
      Health workers are asking us if they should wear no mask at all if cloth masks are the only option. Our research does not condone health workers working unprotected. We recommend that health workers should not work during the COVID-19 pandemic without respiratory protection as a matter of work health and safety. In addition, if health workers get infected, high rates of staff absenteeism from illness may also affect health system capacity to respond. Some health workers may still choose to work in inadequate PPE. In this case, the physic...
      ——————-

      Now we have the majority of the United States population wearing cloth masks which are highly infected with contamination. Originally Dr. Fauci said that there are unintended consequences from wearing masks and this is precisely what he accidentally told the truth about, and then later tried to cover up for his fault.




    Last edited by lenny; 03-20-2021 at 08:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frnash View Post
    You're gonna have a really hard time listening to Lush Rimbaugh any more!
    Yeah, well no problem, eh. One my good friends, a real conservative, labeled that kind of media, "hate media", years ago. One only needs to remember, Roger Ailes coined the "alternative facts" over 30 years ago.

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    I never followed Rush, but remember walking into a hospital waiting room and seeing he was on the TV. So while waiting, I figured I would sit close enough to listen. He was on a tirade about climate change. I don't remember all of his inaccuracies, but there were a few. The one I do remember is how he went on and on about how there could be no buildup of methane in the atmosphere because methane is flammable and there are x amounts of lightning strikes on earth every minute! Yea, run with that Rush! Pure science!

    I will say that he did sound very convincing and understood that if you did not know any better, then it would be very easy to go with what he said and not question it at all.

    That 20 minutes of listening to him was all I needed to know I was not missing anything important by not listening to him. I had come to the same conclusion about the network news and social media many years before that.

    Believe what you want folks, but I go by the mantra: "Better to sit there and look stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!"

    -John

    As a post script, I would like to add that this post should not reflect my opinion on climate change. Only the comments made by Rush.
    Last edited by Administrator; 03-21-2021 at 10:23 AM. Reason: added PS

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Yeah, well no problem, eh. One my good friends, a real conservative, labeled that kind of media, "hate media", years ago. One only needs to remember, Roger Ailes coined the "alternative facts" over 30 years ago.
    Abe, I was going to ignore yours and frnash's comments but I'm curious, what makes a conservative a "real" conservative? The two of you made some short pithy comments that in my opinion were uncalled for and I won't respond to them. From what I remember I didn't attack an ideology or political viewpoint at all. I would not hesitate to call out a stupid decision made by a politician however. For a long time I have known you and now Frnash don't sit on the same side with me politically and that's OK. I enjoy listening to your comments and at times not, but I would never attack your point of view about a particular subject. To be honest I'm a little surprised how quickly you both were triggered on this...maybe I was naive???

  44. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    I never followed Rush, but remember walking into a hospital waiting room and seeing he was on the TV. So while waiting, I figured I would sit close enough to listen. He was on a tirade about climate change. I don't remember all of his inaccuracies, but there were a few. The one I do remember is how he went on and on about how there could be no buildup of methane in the atmosphere because methane is flammable and there are x amounts of lightning strikes on earth every minute! Yea, run with that Rush! Pure science!

    I will say that he did sound very convincing and understood that if you did not know any better, then it would be very easy to go with what he said and not question it at all.

    That 20 minutes of listening to him was all I needed to know I was not missing anything important by not listening to him. I had come to the same conclusion about the network news and social media many years before that.

    Believe what you want folks, but I go by the mantra: "Better to sit there and look stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt!"

    -John
    Hello John! I have a question for you. Since you understood Rush to be in error on a subject he was not properly educated in, does that indeed mean all his other words on politics are not worthy of the possibility of being profitable for listening? Let me better try to give you an example of what I’m talking about. I like to debate people on religious topics and I listen to them all, in all different divisions within the religion of Christianity but specifically on soteriology. When I find somebody is in error I don’t immediately reject all of their work. Often I find myself in error and that my doctrine is in a constant state of evolution, being refined to be more accurate as I develop. So with that said, it seems that you would be rejecting everything that would come out of his mouth because you found him to be in error which seems a little premature in my opinion. This thread has many comments and I bet some of us are considering some of the things being said. Maybe some of us are developing a better understanding and that is beneficial. Taking one person‘s mistake and writing them off as not worth listening to would greatly diminished their work in its entirety. If I’m wrong, help me to understand a little better, thanks brother!
    Last edited by lenny; 03-21-2021 at 10:52 AM. Reason: Error

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    Hello John! I have a question for you. Since you understood Rush to be in error on a subject he was not properly educated in, does that indeed mean all his other words on politics are not worthy of the possibility of being profitable for listening? Let me better try to give you an example of what I’m talking about. I like to debate people on religious topics and I listen to them all, in all different divisions within the religion of Christianity but specifically on soteriology. When I find somebody is in error I don’t immediately reject all of their work. Often I find myself in error and that my doctrine is in a constant state of evolution, being refined to be more accurate as I develop. So with that said, it seems that you would be rejecting everything that would come out of his mouth because you found him to be in error which seems a little premature in my opinion. This thread has many comments and I bet some of us are considering some of the things being said. Maybe some of us are developing a better understanding and that is beneficial. Taking one person‘s mistake and writing them off as not worth listening to would greatly diminished their work in its entirety. If I’m wrong, help me to understand a little better, thanks brother!
    Hi Lenny

    "does that indeed mean all his other words on politics are not worthy of the possibility of being profitable for listening"

    I can only answer for myself, but so for me yes, but let me explain. Most of the time I listen to any talk radio, podcasts or watch TV is to enlighten my knowledge with things that are historically or scientifically true. Not to hear others opinions. I am 100% perfectly fine with what others think, as I am very confident in the short list of what I believe to be truths. I have absolutely no problem with others opinion, as long as that thinking does not bring harm or lead to harm to that person or others.

    Rush was an immensely well known radio personality for many reasons, but that type of programming just does not appeal to me. So since listening to him say what he did and know that for 100% he was wrong, I then would have to question anything he says that I do not know about. I would have to research them myself to see if they are true or not. That is WAY too much work for something I was not even interested in the first place!


    As I also said, I watch none of the network news and my list of other news sources is dwindling to an extremely small one.

    Quite frankly, this may disturb a lot that read it, but I do not concern myself too much with what is going on in the country or world. I tend to focus on what is in my day to day world. Family, friends and how to be as good a person to them as I can be and let the rest of the world do what it's going to do. I suppose that's part of the benefits of living where I do, I am not impacted by what is going on outside of "my" world.

    My mantra is: "Occupy Yourself" 

    Take care!

    -John

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post

    Hi Lenny

    "does that indeed mean all his other words on politics are not worthy of the possibility of being profitable for listening"

    I can only answer for myself, but so for me yes, but let me explain. Most of the time I listen to any talk radio, podcasts or watch TV is to enlighten my knowledge with things that are historically or scientifically true. Not to hear others opinions. I am 100% perfectly fine with what others think, as I am very confident in the short list of what I believe to be truths. I have absolutely no problem with others opinion, as long as that thinking does not bring harm or lead to harm to that person or others.

    Rush was an immensely well known radio personality for many reasons, but that type of programming just does not appeal to me. So since listening to him say what he did and know that for 100% he was wrong, I then would have to question anything he says that I do not know about. I would have to research them myself to see if they are true or not. That is WAY too much work for something I was not even interested in the first place!



    As I also said, I watch none of the network news and my list of other news sources is dwindling to an extremely small one.

    Quite frankly, this may disturb a lot that read it, but I do not concern myself too much with what is going on in the country or world. I tend to focus on what is in my day to day world. Family, friends and how to be as good a person to them as I can be and let the rest of the world do what it's going to do. I suppose that's part of the benefits of living where I do, I am not impacted by what is going on outside of "my" world.

    My mantra is: "Occupy Yourself"

    Take care!

    -John
    John, I like much of what you have said and will not attempt to challenge you in any way on how you perceive things. On a side note, do you personally think that the government (state or federal) has infringed on US citizens life or liberty?

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    YES. And still are.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    YES. And still are.

    agreed! Since you have a background in science, a different field obviously, what’s your opinion on the efficacy of face masks?

  49. #149
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    Here’s a cut and paste from her control research study on the contamination of cloth facemasks in a clinical setting in Vietnam from 2015.

    Results Viral contamination with rhinovirus was identified on both used medical and cloth masks. Most HCW (77% of daily washing) self-washed their masks by hand. The risk of infection was more than double among HCW self-washing their masks compared with the hospital laundry (HR 2.04 (95% CI 1.03 to 4.00); p=0.04). There was no significant difference in infection between HCW who wore cloth masks washed in the hospital laundry compared with medical masks (p=0.5).

    Conclusions Using self-reported method of washing, we showed double the risk of infection with seasonal respiratory viruses if masks were self-washed by hand by HCWs. The majority of HCWs in the study reported hand-washing their mask themselves. This could explain the poor performance of two layered cloth masks, if the self-washing was inadequate. Cloth masks washed in the hospital laundry were as protective as medical masks. Both cloth and medical masks were contaminated, but only cloth masks were reused in the study, reiterating the importance of daily washing of reusable cloth masks using proper method. A well-washed cloth mask can be as protective as a medical mask.



  50. #150
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    Keep in mind folks, these are clinical research studies that are scientific in nature, not opinion. What we are doing in the United States is hideous and dangerous by repeatedly wearing cloth masks. We see how much the infection rate is in a clinical study so think about how it is in society when we rarely ever wash the masks, touch them over and over , contaminating every other surface that we touch. We have really screwed this thing up folks and there’s a good reason why I do not wear a mask unless there’s absolutely something that I must do. I was in Illinois over the weekend for my dad‘s 90th birthday so I went into Farm and Fleet to get him some thing and I noticed that every single person in there was wearing a mask so I asked the cashier, are you guys refusing service to people who do not wear masks and she told me no. &nbsp;We have a huge number of men who have large beards wearing cloth masks or surgical masks somehow over their mouth only, not their nose, and the mask is absolutely doing nothing other than satisfying a mandate, regardless of how ineffective the performance of the mask actually is. &nbsp;I am fully convinced that we are creating more contamination than protection and again, this is why Anthony Fauci said that people should not be wearing masks unless you are ill. &nbsp; He knew that there’s unintended consequences from people fidgeting with their masks, contaminating their fingers and then every other service they touch. This is a huge problem and only expands the spread!

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    I'm not at all surprised that "true" colors have been revealed, given what I've seen in this page of posts.
    If there are those here that THINK they are somehow more intelligent than the departed El Rushbo, well, then delusion is in fact alive and well in snowmobiling, as well as intellectual acuity.
    If you don't believe massive amounts of research had gone into the production of that show...well, he didn't have 30 million listeners in a dead medium like AM radio because he was inaccurate.
    Thank you for confirming what I've already known to be 98.7% true (as Mr. Limbaugh used to say), prior to today!
    Talk about delusion....thinking you're smarter than the greatest radio personality of all time. Just hilarious.
    Go ahead censor or delete my post - it's what socialists and communists do - might as well live up to the predilection. Have a great day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    agreed! Since you have a background in science, a different field obviously, what’s your opinion on the efficacy of face masks?
    To me it it depends strongly on the type of mask. Beyond that, I believe only a level of protection and not full. I don’t know enough about masks and to how much protection from this virus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cirrus View Post
    I'm not at all surprised that "true" colors have been revealed, given what I've seen in this page of posts.
    If there are those here that THINK they are somehow more intelligent than the departed El Rushbo, well, then delusion is in fact alive and well in snowmobiling, as well as intellectual acuity.
    If you don't believe massive amounts of research had gone into the production of that show...well, he didn't have 30 million listeners in a dead medium like AM radio because he was inaccurate.
    Thank you for confirming what I've already known to be 98.7% true (as Mr. Limbaugh used to say), prior to today!
    Talk about delusion....thinking you're smarter than the greatest radio personality of all time. Just hilarious.
    Go ahead censor or delete my post - it's what socialists and communists do - might as well live up to the predilection. Have a great day.
    X2

    That was always an issue with listening to Rush, if you caught 20 minutes of a show that turned you off from him, then there was no way to get you back. He always said that you had to give him 6 weeks of listening to really grasp what he was all about.

    I have been listening to him since '88, and although I don't agree with everything he says, I always appreciated how he could simplify what he was talking about and make it easy to understand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfattack View Post
    Abe, I was going to ignore yours and frnash's comments but I'm curious, what makes a conservative a "real" conservative? The two of you made some short pithy comments that in my opinion were uncalled for and I won't respond to them. From what I remember I didn't attack an ideology or political viewpoint at all. I would not hesitate to call out a stupid decision made by a politician however. For a long time I have known you and now Frnash don't sit on the same side with me politically and that's OK. I enjoy listening to your comments and at times not, but I would never attack your point of view about a particular subject. To be honest I'm a little surprised how quickly you both were triggered on this...maybe I was naive???
    Old Abe and myself have "made some short pithy comments that in my opinion were uncalled for"? I'm — almost — curious as to which of my posts you refer to, but never mind, I have no interest in engaging in a "pithing" contest here. As to Limbaugh, my familiarity with his radio program was solely due to the fact that the best source for accurate traffic reports during my commuting days happened to be the local AM radio station that carried his program. I have no opinion regarding his politics, just my early conclusion that his sole focus and objective was maintaining and growing his audience. Period. Thus I largely ignored him. Beyond that, my only comment here simply was in recognition of his passing. My other comments on COVID-19 inoculations relate to my own dilemma regarding the risk vs. benefit they might have for me. —————————————————————————————————————————————————— —— Edit: To clarify for anyone here who might have jumped to a different ‘contusion’, as to “politics”, I will say only that I have considered myself a “Barry Goldwater Conservative” since reading the book, “The Conscience of a Conservative”, shortly after it was published in 1960, and thereby recognizing how my thoughts aligned with his as expressed therein. Interesting that I was at Michigan Tech at the time, without the slightest thought or expectation of ever moving to Arizona.
    Last edited by frnash; 03-22-2021 at 12:01 PM.

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    As we've all expressed our views, our experiences, and lastly the results we have all seen to this point, one thing that has been blatantly obvious, (And we have done our best to follow the rules here) is this whole thing was one big politicized mess. It was used and is still being used to, with the help from our wonderful media, to influence our lives in a way I have never seen before.

    Whether you agree or disagree with how things were handled, this is still a free country. Its pretty clear that none of this has been a one size fits all solution. Take care of yourself, make informed decisions for yourself.

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    around me in lower michigan just about every commercial on the radio is governor whitless telling me to behave and it might get better BLAH, BLAH,BLAH SPENDING tax dollars<br><br>Im not taking it<br>I never do flu shots either but RARELY get sick, prob missed 8-10 days work in 18 years.&nbsp;<br>Granted i may have been at my desk working with a stupid cold or flu<br>this year i had a runny nose one day and I still went to work LOL

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    we have 120 employees and only one wears a mask, its been buisness as usual for the last year for us<br>i have a couple masks that have been getting shoved in coat pockets, laid on bars and tables, dropped on the floor etc for the last year and finally got washed last week, yeah prob gross<br>the only time i put a mask on is at my favorite bars walking in and out and i eat out or go somewhere everyday....

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr440 View Post
    … It (this whole thing) was used and is still being used to, with the help from our wonderful media, to influence our lives in a way I have never seen before. …
    That seems a fair analysis, given how many pandemics we have seen before.
    Last edited by frnash; 03-22-2021 at 12:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr440 View Post
    If I understood my nurse friend correctly, yes, they created a new code to be used on the death chart for "Covid".
    That is correct information. The intent was not for the reason that most believe.

    We have used a poor system in regards to tracking seasonal viruses like the flu. The numbers that are reported are an estimation of cases. The numbers are derived from a small group of medical treatment facilities spread across the country that are doing laboratory confirmed testing on patients. The confirmed flu numbers from those facilities are then used to calculate how much of the entire population has had the flu. There is also a delay in the calculation process that creates a delay in reporting the numbers. Often, the most recent number of cases reported is actually data from previous years. It is a messy process and the delays create problems with proper action.

    There was enough foresight early on with Covid to create a definition of the disease that can essentially be "checked" on the charts. That little step creates the ability to "track" numbers in real time instead of retroactive estimations. It is a big deal. That is also how we can immediately get number that are broken down to exact geographic locations like your home town. That little check, or code, has also been used more than anyone ever intended. In some ways, we are lucky it is in place. When funding started to roll out it was tied to Covid. The little check meant that funding and resources specifically for Covid would roll into those cases That eased the burden of private insurers, under insured, clinics, and hospitals. The little check mark also allowed for more accurate determination of treatment testing and result tracking. It helped speed up the development of effective treatments.
    It seems ironic that some would call the covid box a means to collecting a bounty. It really means that testing and treatment for Covid is deferred to the programs specifically funded to fight the virus. The financial burden is reduced away from individuals, clinics, and hospitals. A financial manager would be a fool to turn away money. A doctor wouldn't get many pats on the back for turning away help.

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by frnash View Post
    That seems a fair analysis, given how many pandemics we have seen before.
    Hello Frank, I’ll ask you the same question I asked John.  Do you think the government (state or federal) has infringed on us citizens since this covid-19 thing started? 



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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    Hello Frank, I’ll ask you the same question I asked John. Do you think the government (state or federal) has infringed on us citizens since this covid-19 thing started?
    It hasn't affected me, and I dunno about your neighborhood, but from some of the wild tales of madness I hear from Michigan and Wisconsin, I think they're just winging it without a clue, and they wouldn't understand the science if it bit them on their "corporeal sitting-down apparatus".

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    Quote Originally Posted by dfattack View Post
    Abe, I was going to ignore yours and frnash's comments but I'm curious, what makes a conservative a "real" conservative? The two of you made some short pithy comments that in my opinion were uncalled for and I won't respond to them. From what I remember I didn't attack an ideology or political viewpoint at all. I would not hesitate to call out a stupid decision made by a politician however. For a long time I have known you and now Frnash don't sit on the same side with me politically and that's OK. I enjoy listening to your comments and at times not, but I would never attack your point of view about a particular subject. To be honest I'm a little surprised how quickly you both were triggered on this...maybe I was naive???
    I consider myself as a real christian conservative. I deal in reality, not Fantasy Land Fallacies. I don't adhere to being preached to by misleading propagandists. I don't know what you have judged me as, but please don't try to make me into something I'm not. I don't intend, nor will I play politics with you. As I said before, your welcome to your opinion, as I am mine. Friends can disagree, and still be friends, eh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    I consider myself as a real christian conservative. I deal in reality, not Fantasy Land Fallacies. I don't adhere to being preached to by misleading propagandists. I don't know what you have judged me as, but please don't try to make me into something I'm not. I don't intend, nor will I play politics with you. As I said before, your welcome to your opinion, as I am mine. Friends can disagree, and still be friends, eh!
    Abe, I'm not judging you. I only asked how you define a real conservative. Just because I know you have different opinions about things doesn't mean I'm judging you. I agree with your last statement, friends can disagree. I would love to discuss this over lunch while on a ride either in the U.P. or Canada, which apparently is something we have in common. You seem like a nice guy and if I sounded like I was judging you then I'm sorry you felt that way. People with different view points need to be able to express themselves freely without being judged. That, sadly is starting to go away in this country.

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    I absolutely agree! Not to be political, but I have always highly admired Eisenhower, all the way around. And consider myself to be a Eisenhower Conservative. Especially after I discovered the real reason he relented, and then decided to run for president. And yes, I'm ready to get back to Canada, and enjoy tiding there once again!
    Last edited by old abe; 03-23-2021 at 10:45 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frnash View Post
    It hasn't affected me, and I dunno about your neighborhood, but from some of the wild tales of madness I hear from Michigan and Wisconsin, I think they're just winging it without a clue, and they wouldn't understand the science if it bit them on their "corporeal sitting-down apparatus".
    Which is EXACTLY why I made my post above. Find out for yourself what your comfort level is, don't sit home being told to "Be SKART of other people not being SKART". I know it sounds like a meme, but its true, that's what they have been pushing on us for over a year now. Sorry, I'm not going to live SKART. This is not directed at you nash, just my opinion of all these politician "corporeal sitting-down apparatus'".

  66. #166
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    I want to express my opinion on this “pandemic”. I take issue with much of how the US handled this. I’ll list them in order:



    1) Early on last March, a CDC stat came out that expressed 80% of those who contract CV will have mild to no symptoms, part of the remaining 20% less than 15% of those will have flu like symptoms, with the death rate similar to the yearly flu. If this is the case, than why destroy businesses, increase all kinds of social problems such as suicide, alcoholism, child abuse, drug abuse, depression, bad attitudes, etc?



    2) Mandate a mask order. I can accept a mandate for a period of time until that time period creates more damage than the crisis at hand. There have been controlled research studies, clinical trials of the effectiveness of masks. Prior to COVID-19, the results indicated that the controlled study groups fared no better for those wearing masks so why was the science not driving the mandate? Today, we are still following the narrative that masks slow the spread when indeed the science shows that a contaminated mask increases the risk of spreading the virus. I debate this topic often with friends and I was lucky enough to make a video one morning while I was pumping gas. I made a video at a gas station and watched numerous people enter the gas station. As they walked up to the gas station, they put their mask on. Next they touched the door, got their wallet out and payed for their purchases which sometimes included them buying items, opening doors, opening cooler doors etc. Now, everything they’ve touched since they touched their mask could potentially be contaminated. They would exchange their money or credit card with the cashier as they’re adding warm moist air to their mask. As they walk out, they’ve just touched the door handle, they get their keys out come open the door and then sit down touching the gear shifter, turning the radio on or whatever else they do inside their car. Everything they’ve touched is potentially contaminated. We know that a virus can live on surfaces for prolonged periods of time. What I observed during that video I made, which I sent to my friends is astonishing and typical of how most Americans conduct their face mask wearing. Even in a professional setting where doctors and nurses are practicing the best hygiene they possibly could, infection rates are something to be concerned about. Now we have the average citizen who is wearing the same reusable nasty mask over and over just to satisfy a business so they can enter. To add to that, we’ve adopted cloth masks which are highly contaminant, worn over and over which is absolutely sending us backwards because the contamination is located on your face as you fidget with the mask all day long. Like I said, even in the best case scenario with professionals wearing masks, masks are not effective as indicated yet we are being told that this mask it’s going to slow the spread and save lives. I stand firm on the statement and I say this, masks are continually adding to the spread of the virus rather than the slowing of the virus. Anthony Fauci stated it properly in an interview when he said that nobody should be wearing a mask unless you are ill, coughing or sneezing. The main point that he made was that often we are fidgeting with the masks and there are unintended consequences. What do you think the unintended consequences are? The unintended consequences are we are contaminating everything we touch thus spreading contamination. You have all heard the saying that a mask catching a virus is similar to a chain-link fence trying to catch a mosquito. Now, I don’t subscribe to that theory and I think it’s somewhat false but what I will say is that the research that I’ve read indicates that when somebody sneezes or coughs through a mask, the discharge hits the air and moisture evaporates very quickly. Similarly to if you were to take a can of spray paint and sprayed into the air. If you spray that paint straight up, that paint will land on the ground dried. My point is as we sneeze and cough through our masks or even talk, our respiratory system is discharging anything that is contaminating it. As that discharge enters the atmosphere, the moisture evaporates almost immediately while any other particles remain separated from the moisture. The coronavirus is extremely small and can stay suspended in the air as a person walks about, sits down for a dinner. Currents in the air from ventilation, heating or cooling systems will cause tiny microscopic particles to stay airborne and follow currents. Improper use of the masks only decrease its ability to perform and don’t forget while in a controlled professional setting, non-mask wears compared to mask wearers we’re nearly identical in the rate of infection. A study in 2015 which I already posted above shows similar findings. Now we are still equipping people with non-scientific mandates and we are paying the price.

    3) Mandates are limited in how long they can prohibit the free movement of people. Governors must enact new legislation if they want to continue to apply such restrictions to people yet they have not done that. These mandates do indeed prohibit people from functioning by the means in which they deem necessary. Since we can observe the fact that mandates have time limits, the breaking of that time limit goes against the liberty of a citizen to live his life as he sees fit. Currently, we are being exploited and prohibited from living our lives freely and necessary. Some of you may say that it’s worth doing anything that’s going to save lives and how can somebody argue with that but the reality is we are mandating masks which only spread the virus more than they contain the virus, subjecting people to tyranny which prohibits them from living their lives as they need to live them. The collateral damage from the mandates is extraordinarily high yet we continue to do the wrong thing over and over.

    4) The survivability rate for those two contract COVID-19 is 99.7% for those who are 70 years of age and lower. Close to 82% of the population is made up of people that are 70 and younger yet we subject the majority of the population to extreme measures that slow our ability to reach heard immunity, destroy livelihoods, businesses, increase suicide, bankruptcy, alcoholism, child abuse, and all the other forms of social abuses.

    5) Why is all this happening? Why is the United States as a sovereign nation being subjected to the philosophies and techniques of socialist and communist countries? Do we not have the ability to implement our own policy? Some of you may see my comments conspiracy theory type. It’s easy to prove that my comments are not conspiracy in nature. Look at what’s happening in our society today. Movements like black lives matter cofounder Patrice Kolors is a proclaimed Marxist. She made a second video addressing the fact that some people have called her a Marxist and in that video, she only confirms that it is not a suspicion but the fact is she is a Marxist. We embrace these types of people in our society today. We worship the environment rather than use the resources that it provides. Bernie Sanders was a socialist Democrat and gained much traction and has a lot of appeal to many people. The fact that socialism, environmentalism and progressive liberalism exist shows that we are transitioning from a traditionally conservative country to a different form. What I’m telling you is observable so it’s not speculation or conspiracy theory in nature. Something has to be done folks. As a Christian conservative, the good book shows that the world will indeed be a one world government so it is in evitable but does that mean that we just continue to give up traditional values and our freedoms? We send people overseas to defend our freedoms yet we allow them to be stolen from us in front of our very faces. We need to be willing to give up something and fight this abhorrent advancement of depravity. Today we embrace the idea that you determine what sex you are by how you feel, we don’t seem to fight the fact that pedophilia is rampant in this country. Our only hope is that we have a revival of our hearts and then we turned back to the living God Who articulated our God-given rights and freedoms in our US constitution. The Constitution and our bill of rights is the law of our land and they are in severe jeopardy right now. I think it’s worth fighting for and I’m willing to fight for it. What does that fight look like, I don’t know yet but I’m keeping my eyes open.
    Last edited by lenny; 03-23-2021 at 12:23 PM.

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    Lenny, please consider running for governor.

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    Lenny, question for you. When covid first came to the US what was your thought at that time, not months later just when it first got here? It basically hit right around Easter which happens to be same time as spring break in Wisconsin so our family figured ok extended spring break probably 2-3 weeks then it would have run it’s coarse. Was that similar to yours or did you have other thoughts?

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    I agree with you Lenny. Lot's of crap going on and if nothing is done about it most in society are going to wake up one day and say "what the heck just happened?" Most of them don't follow news or world events and don't have a clue what's going on. Good for them...for now. I have relatives that I love that don't want to listen or follow current events since it depresses them. All I can say is I'm thankful most didn't think this way back in 1776. We wouldn't be here now discussing these matters.
    Last edited by dfattack; 03-23-2021 at 10:31 PM.

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    Lenny for president 2024
    you would get my vote

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    Yeah, well, I agree lenny, what is going on, eh? Just take for a example, Steve Bannon? He is a self proclaimed Leninist communist! And low and behold he becomes a close adviser to the US President? People had better wake up for sure, as there is so much more this! I can very well remember as growing up, to hear Nikita Khrushchev say Russia could defeat us without ever firing a shot! Also, I believe it was Adams who said we would lose our Liberty/Freedom from within? Very concerning indeed!

  72. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by goofy600 View Post
    Lenny, question for you. When covid first came to the US what was your thought at that time, not months later just when it first got here? It basically hit right around Easter which happens to be same time as spring break in Wisconsin so our family figured ok extended spring break probably 2-3 weeks then it would have run it’s coarse. Was that similar to yours or did you have other thoughts?
    Very early on, the statistic of 80% will have mild to no symptoms cinched the deal for me to not be very concerned about this. Immediately the lock downs seemed excessive and a few weeks later I was advocating that it was an infringement on our rights. I got a letter from the state of Michigan saying that I was not an essential worker and was told not to work, that didn’t go over too well needless to say. The government determining who is essential and who is not is a violation right there which I could deal with for a few weeks but the whole thing had seemed suspicious from the onset! In April, I was protesting by myself out in front of the sheriffs office with a sign speaking about tyranny. In September, I was out front of the health department office with the same sign, having conversations with some of the workers at the health department. Most people don’t know how to respond to this thing because they’re scared and they’re used to being naïve and good hearted so they just accept these things. I don’t think people are stupid for following the orders, rather, simply think they’re naïve and could never fathom that their own government would not have their best interest.
    Last edited by lenny; 03-23-2021 at 06:04 PM.

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    I appreciate the respectful discourse on this topic.

    I am a numbers guy; my profession is technical sales of industrial equipment. When this all started last year, I became very suspect about the data being published. The data sets used were constantly changing, seeming to make things look worse than they actually were. Mask information above is very interesting and logical. Also, if COVID originated in China, how could their case numbers and fatalities be so much lower than in the US? China has 8 cities that have greater populations than New York City and typically with higher density.

    I was infected with COVID-19 last November and it wacked me hard. I was flat on my back for about 8 days with fatigue and body aches. I never had breathing problems, thankfully. The county health department contacted me about 2 weeks after my positive test and talked with me on the phone for over 20 minutes, mostly for contact tracing. I told them where I went prior to becoming ill but told them I always wore a mask. They said a mask wont prevent a person from getting COVID, only lowers the likely hood of them spreading it. They said I probably got it from touching something (shopping cart, door handle, etc.) and then getting in my truck and touching my face. My wife and my adult son both lived in the same house I did and never got ill and both tested negative, twice. Strange.

    If you watch or listen to a show that is named after the person who stars in that show (Rush, Chris Matthews, Glenn Beck, Bill Maher, Shawn Hannity, etc.) for anything other than entertainment, caution is advised as most information on those shows is the opinion of the star.

    Back to the thread title: I got my first shot of the Pfizer vaccine this past Saturday morning. Had some minor side effects (chills, dull headache) but feel fine now. My life has not been greatly affected by COVID but looking forward to getting back to normal.

  74. #174
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by hybrid View Post
    Lenny for president 2024

    you would get my vote


    Quote Originally Posted by russholio View Post
    Lenny, please consider running for governor. ""
    Thanks for the kind sentiment but do you guys realize how fast a guy like me would be run right outta town? There is little place in leadership for someone like me who opposes so much of what’s going on in this country. I’d have every phobia and ism attached to my name. I’d literally be a laughing stock! The swamp is so deep, it’s more like quicksand.

    On a side note, it’s entirety possible that the non vaccinated will be greatly limited in his/her ability to move about freely, wait for it,,,,,,,

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    That is my concern as well.  Show me your papers!  Wanna get on a plane? Show me your papers.  Wanna go into that concert?  Show me your papers.  Wanna go into walmart?  (I don't.  Never.)  Show me your papers.  I have been reading these posts but bit my tounge.  If it comes down to where I can't go and do what I want because I won't get this freaking shot that is when trouble is gonna start.  

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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post
    On a side note, it’s entirety possible that the non vaccinated will be greatly limited in his/her ability to move about freely, wait for it,,,,,,,
    Unless 80% of the populous gets vaccinated, this is what it will take to for us to reach a herd immunity level according to the CDC. So, if your are in that 20 percentile that does not wish to be vaccinated, there should not be an issue. Either way, I have chosen to get the vaccine due to underlying health issues plus recovering from back surgery. Shot one is done, shot two in 3 weeks. I just want this chit to be over, it's really old. -Mezz



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    Quote Originally Posted by mezz View Post

    Unless 80% of the populous gets vaccinated, this is what it will take to for us to reach a herd immunity level according to the CDC. So, if your are in that 20 percentile that does not wish to be vaccinated, there should not be an issue. Either way, I have chosen to get the vaccine due to underlying health issues plus recovering from back surgery. Shot one is done, shot two in 3 weeks. I just want this chit to be over, it's really old. -Mezz

    I have to agree mezz! Lets get this over with, and the sooner the better! I've had both my shots with no problems other than a bit of muscle tightness where the shot was.

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    My boss is pro vaccine shot, he has had it, and his mom has had it. Today he was having a discussion with his younger brother, apparently their sister was exposed to someone with covid. He was telling his younger brother "Ashley CANNOT come visit mom until she tests negative!" Huh? But, the mom is fully vaccinated, so she can't get it right? What a joke.
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    My boss is pro vaccine shot, he has had it, and his mom has had it. Today he was having a discussion with his younger brother, apparently their sister was exposed to someone with covid. He was telling his younger brother "Ashley CANNOT come visit mom until she tests negative!" Huh? But, the mom is fully vaccinated, so she can't get it right? What a joke.
    Not necessarily true the Johnson and Johnson you can still get it but shouldn’t have to get hospitalized or die. Not sure what what exactly are the clams of the other vaccines. As for a family (or person) that is still that paranoid that’s a little crazy if you ask me but not my call. Also she can just go get the test also and then make decisions based on test results, and determine if she needs quarantine.

  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    My boss is pro vaccine shot, he has had it, and his mom has had it. Today he was having a discussion with his younger brother, apparently their sister was exposed to someone with covid. He was telling his younger brother "Ashley CANNOT come visit mom until she tests negative!" Huh? But, the mom is fully vaccinated, so she can't get it right? What a joke.
    Skylar, how long has she been fully vaccinated? As it takes some time after being fully vaccinated to be immune to the virus. The older the more time required. My close friends in their early 70's where told 4 weeks with their Moderna vaccines. I am somewhat younger, and got the Pfizer, and was told 3 weeks. Just saying, hope this may help.

  81. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Skylar, how long has she been fully vaccinated? As it takes some time after being fully vaccinated to be immune to the virus. The older the more time required. My close friends in their early 70's where told 4 weeks with their Moderna vaccines. I am somewhat younger, and got the Pfizer, and was told 3 weeks. Just saying, hope this may help.
    I believe it was the first week of February.
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  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    My boss is pro vaccine shot, he has had it, and his mom has had it. Today he was having a discussion with his younger brother, apparently their sister was exposed to someone with covid. He was telling his younger brother "Ashley CANNOT come visit mom until she tests negative!" Huh? But, the mom is fully vaccinated, so she can't get it right? What a joke.
    All of the current vaccinations seem pretty effective at preventing the receiver from getting seriously ill. The important part to remember is that even the vaccinated person can still get and transmit the virus, just not get as sick themselves. Sounds like your boss has not read up on the CDC recommendations or information on the vax put out by the vax companies.

    Easiest to consider the vaccinated person is the same as an asymptomatic person. Has it, does not know they have it or has very mild symptoms. Still spreads it.

    Taking that into consideration, it's pretty ludicrous to see the chatter about "must be vaccinated" to do "x".

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    Question to those that choose to not get the shot(s). I'm curious as to the reason why not. Is it just b/c "no one is going to tell me what to do"&nbsp; or is there more to it ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chords View Post
    Question to those that choose to not get the shot(s). I'm curious as to the reason why not. Is it just b/c "no one is going to tell me what to do"  or is there more to it ?
    Don't need it.

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    DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER! It's quite possible the government mandates it at some point. Let's compare it to the Affordable Healthcare Act of 2010/Obamacare. They now force us to carry health insurance and to prove it when we file our taxes. If not, you're assessed a penalty and pay more tax/fine. Of course if you're low income then you get it for free. The reason I see this for our future is that when we get the first shot they give you a card and tell you to keep it in a safe place for future reference. It was hinted to me that we'll need those cards for future commercial travel, domestic or otherwise. So, before I get flamed here I just want to say, do what you feel is best for you but with the present climate in Washington I'll be waiting for the other shoe to drop.

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    Been saying this for months.
    It’s obvious
    Whether u like it or not when they take away civil liberties u seldom get them back without paying a price.
    Vax shot is the price one will pay




    QUOTE=gary_in_neenah;506493]DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER! It's quite possible the government mandates it at some point. Let's compare it to the Affordable Healthcare Act of 2010/Obamacare. They now force us to carry health insurance and to prove it when we file our taxes. If not, you're assessed a penalty and pay more tax/fine. Of course if you're low income then you get it for free. The reason I see this for our future is that when we get the first shot they give you a card and tell you to keep it in a safe place for future reference. It was hinted to me that we'll need those cards for future commercial travel, domestic or otherwise. So, before I get flamed here I just want to say, do what you feel is best for you but with the present climate in Washington I'll be waiting for the other shoe to drop.[/QUOTE]

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    Quote Originally Posted by chords View Post
    Question to those that choose to not get the shot(s). I'm curious as to the reason why not. Is it just b/c "no one is going to tell me what to do"&nbsp; or is there more to it ?
    1. Won't be a human lab rat for something with such a high recovery rate
    2. My body, my choice. Not the government's.

  88. #188
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by mezz View Post

    Unless 80% of the populous gets vaccinated, this is what it will take to for us to reach a herd immunity level according to the CDC. So, if your are in that 20 percentile that does not wish to be vaccinated, there should not be an issue. Either way, I have chosen to get the vaccine due to underlying health issues plus recovering from back surgery. Shot one is done, shot two in 3 weeks. I just want this chit to be over, it's really old. -Mezz




    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    I have to agree mezz! Lets get this over with, and the sooner the better! I've had both my shots with no problems other than a bit of muscle tightness where the shot was.
    I think you guys are missing my point.  The 82% can get the virus and build natural antibodies that will protect themselves and everyone else the better than a vaccine ever will.  Slowing the spread for the low risk majority is senseless!  It only keeps us away from heard immunity insisting that the only remedy is a vaccine.  Do you understand what I’m saying? 



  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Skylar, how long has she been fully vaccinated? As it takes some time after being fully vaccinated to be immune to the virus. The older the more time required. My close friends in their early 70's where told 4 weeks with their Moderna vaccines. I am somewhat younger, and got the Pfizer, and was told 3 weeks. Just saying, hope this may help.
    I’ve seen reports from previous flu shots ( The flu is a form of a coronavirus) that say the best protecting has been 32%, 60%, 25%. Since we’ve never been able to produce a coronavirus vaccine that’s reliably effective, do you think this one will be any better especially since there is limited testing and observation of its effects? That say 95% But I have no faith whatsoever in that number and I don’t think anybody should considering the circumstances.
    Last edited by lenny; 03-24-2021 at 08:34 PM.

  90. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by chords View Post
    Question to those that choose to not get the shot(s). I'm curious as to the reason why not. Is it just b/c "no one is going to tell me what to do" or is there more to it ?
    its because if your 70 years old or younger it’s low risk. 80% will have mild to no symptoms. Why pump a rushed experimental vaccine the many docs admitt they don’t know the long term effects. Animal testing and years of research have been bypassed so why would I risk myself if I’m healthy. I had Covid and it was easier to deal with than the flu I’ve had in the past. It really makes no sense to have a vaccine if you’re healthy. There still going to be new strains that come out so this is going to be a yearly scam like the regular flu. We are fat lazy country that is obese, plagued with fast food addictions and poor immune system‘s. We need to go right to the root rather than pump out these chemicals that are still experimental.
    Last edited by lenny; 03-25-2021 at 07:58 AM.

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post





    I think you guys are missing my point. *The 82% can get the virus and build natural antibodies that will protect themselves and everyone else the better than a vaccine ever will. *Slowing the spread for the low risk majority is senseless! *It only keeps us away from heard immunity insisting that the only remedy is a vaccine. *Do you understand what I’m saying?*

    Lenny I do get it! You don't want the shot, so don't get the shot, eh!

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Lenny I do get it! You don't want the shot, so don't get the shot, eh!

    it has nothing to do with what I want. It has to do with logic. For 82% of the population, it’s a non-issue. Somebody just posted in here that it doesn’t prevent you from getting the virus or even spreading it. He said that it only stops you from getting seriously ill. We already have that in our own natural immune system and this comes straight from the CDC. So to sum it up, and this is what you need to think about, why risk your health with an experimental vaccine when it’s less effective then your natural ability to fight the virus. I understand if you’re in the risk group that you may want to do it. If that’s you, knock yourself out. If it’s not you then you’re just taking it for the fun of it with an additional risk. 

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 2TrakR View Post
    All of the current vaccinations seem pretty effective at preventing the receiver from getting seriously ill. The important part to remember is that even the vaccinated person can still get and transmit the virus, just not get as sick themselves. Sounds like your boss has not read up on the CDC recommendations or information on the vax put out by the vax companies.



    Easiest to consider the vaccinated person is the same as an asymptomatic person. Has it, does not know they have it or has very mild symptoms. Still spreads it.



    Taking that into consideration, it's pretty ludicrous to see the chatter about "must be vaccinated" to do "x".

    If what you’re saying is true, and I don’t doubt it, then it sounds like those who are in the risk category would be welcoming to this. The 82% that will have very low risk and most of them mild to no symptoms, it seems to be no better than what the natural immune system will do. Am I wrong, what am I missing?

  93. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post


    If what you’re saying is true, and I don’t doubt it, then it sounds like those who are in the risk category would be welcoming to this. The 82% that will have very low risk and most of them mild to no symptoms, it seems to be no better than what the natural immune system will do. Am I wrong, what am I missing?
    Your not missing anything.

    Some think this vaccine makes them immune to the virus, it does not. At least the manufacturers say it does not and no studies have shown otherwise. There have been some misleading main-stream-news articles, which makes it understandable why some would be misinformed.

    There is the virus, then there is the disease the virus can cause. The vaccine only works to prevent the disease. Does not kill/stop the virus. At least that is the information we have currently.

    Not a fan of VOX, but they have a reasonable video that explains the vaccines fairly well including how good/bad they are as far as preventing severe disease (which is the goal of these shots).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3odScka55A

  94. #194
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    On that linked video, there are comments echoing the false news headline that said the Israeli study showed the vaccine stops the spread.

    Here is a review of the study. Short version: vaccine stopped severe disease. Nothing about transmission.
    https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...se-good-1-dose

    Another with the same conclusion:
    https://www.biospace.com/article/isr...ent-of-deaths/

    And the actual study, still undergoing review:
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...448-7/fulltext

    What gives the confusion is the phrase "rate reductions" on the study. Reuters ran with that and said it was rate of transmission; it is not, it is rate of severe disease.
    The study does indicate they saw a rate reduction in infections and severe disease after vaccination. However, they also note they only tested for infection if the person showed symptoms.
    Vaccine appears to have done it's job by reducing severe disease (which would have symptoms). They did not test for asymptomatic, so they don't know if it helped to reduce actual infections or not.

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2TrakR View Post
    Your not missing anything.



    Some think this vaccine makes them immune to the virus, it does not. At least the manufacturers say it does not and no studies have shown otherwise. There have been some misleading main-stream-news articles, which makes it understandable why some would be misinformed.



    There is the virus, then there is the disease the virus can cause. The vaccine only works to prevent the disease. Does not kill/stop the virus. At least that is the information we have currently.



    Not a fan of VOX, but they have a reasonable video that explains the vaccines fairly well including how good/bad they are as far as preventing severe disease (which is the goal of these shots).



    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3odScka55A" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3odScka55A
    . Thanks for the video, I found it very informative!



  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by gary_in_neenah View Post
    DON'T SHOOT THE MESSENGER! It's quite possible the government mandates it at some point. Let's compare it to the Affordable Healthcare Act of 2010/Obamacare. They now force us to carry health insurance and to prove it when we file our taxes. If not, you're assessed a penalty and pay more tax/fine. Of course if you're low income then you get it for free. The reason I see this for our future is that when we get the first shot they give you a card and tell you to keep it in a safe place for future reference. It was hinted to me that we'll need those cards for future commercial travel, domestic or otherwise. So, before I get flamed here I just want to say, do what you feel is best for you but with the present climate in Washington I'll be waiting for the other shoe to drop.
    I hope the fact that there is no law on the books to require a US citizen to be vaccinated against anything else (measles, mumps, polio) will set a precedence for this vaccination. Forcing someone to have something done to their body takes us into some very ugly territory. Hopefully most of us would recognize that. 

    I will say I got my vaccinations, but am not sure I would have if I was not solidly part of the population that would not likely survive a dance with this covid virus.

    With that thought, just for curiosity and I know it's a hypothetical question, but for those of you not wanting to get it. If you were part of the population that would not likely survive the covid virus, would you then get the vaccinations?

    -John



  97. #197
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post

    I hope the fact that there is no law on the books to require a US citizen to be vaccinated against anything else (measles, mumps, polio) will set a precedence for this vaccination. Forcing someone to have something done to their body takes us into some very ugly territory. Hopefully most of us would recognize that. 

    I will say I got my vaccinations, but am not sure I would have if I was not solidly part of the population that would not likely survive a dance with this covid virus.

    With that thought, just for curiosity and I know it's a hypothetical question, but for those of you not wanting to get it. If you were part of the population that would not likely survive the covid virus, would you then get the vaccinations?

    -John


    Thats a good question!  With this vaccine,,,,, it’s hard to say because it’s lacking much testing.  If this particular vaccine had undergone the regular process of testing and research, then absolutely.  John, do you remember shortly after the vaccine was rolled out, the media made a comment saying if people die after taking the vaccine, it won’t mean that they died because of the vaccine? I think they cover their tracks in all areas but then again, I could be one who’s influenced by the far right camp. One thing I do know, there’s lots of bad information out there from both sides.



  98. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by lenny View Post

    Thats a good question!  With this vaccine,,,,, it’s hard to say because it’s lacking much testing.  If this particular vaccine had undergone the regular process of testing and research, then absolutely.  John, do you remember shortly after the vaccine was rolled out, the media made a comment saying if people die after taking the vaccine, it won’t mean that they died because of the vaccine? I think they cover their tracks in all areas but then again, I could be one who’s influenced by the far right camp. One thing I do know, there’s lots of bad information out there from both sides.


    I totally agree about the quality of information from both sides. I think with the amount of vaccinations done, it would surpass that which is needed for FDA approval. The big question is any effects/complications down the road. I'm hoping for x-ray vision!



  99. #199
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    Also, something I wanted to clear up. I re-read my post about Rush and the last sentence sounds like I am saying Rush should sit there and look stupid than open his mouth and remove all doubt. That is NOT what I meant. I believe Rush was WAY smarter than me on just about all topics, with the exception of the Atmosphere and possibly snowmobiling and woodworking. My comment was just meant for everyone in general, including me!

  100. #200
    lenny Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post

    I totally agree about the quality of information from both sides. I think with the amount of vaccinations done, it would surpass that which is needed for FDA approval. The big question is any effects/complications down the road. I'm hoping for x-ray vision!


    that’s all we can really do, is hope for the best. I just looked this up and I found it and it’s information from the CDC.  

    • FDA requires vaccination providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS.
    • Reports of death to VAERS following vaccination do not necessarily mean the vaccine caused the death.
    • CDC follows up on any report of death to request additional information and learn more about what occurred and to determine whether the death was a result of the vaccine or unrelated.
    • To date, VAERS has not detected patterns in cause of death that would indicate a safety problem with COVID-19 vaccines.
    • CDC, FDA, and other federal partners will continue to monitor the safety of COVID-19 vaccines.

    126 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through March 22, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 2,216 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC and FDA physicians review each case report of death as soon as notified and CDC requests medical records to further assess reports. A review of available clinical information including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records revealed no evidence that vaccination contributed to patient deaths. CDC and FDA will continue to investigate reports of adverse events, including deaths, reported to VAERS.





    - - - Updated - - -

    Here is the CDC‘s website link, I hope it works.


    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

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