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  1. #1
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    Default China claims another one. Hometown factory now owned by MLB moving to china

    Just down right pissed off. 72 jobs in my town of 2500 people. Gone. Born in my small town 20 years ago was a composite company who makes softball/baseball bats, helmets, golf club shafts ect. That company was sold in its infant years to a couple investors. Who then sold to Rawlings sports. Then bought up by an investment group and the MLB. Major League Baseball. The helmets the MLB uses are made in my small town. Well not anymore. Sounds like they gave the plant 12 months and then are moving production to China. MLB, Major League Baseball "Americas past time" "baseball is as American as apple pie." How disgusting. Said they could make the bats $40 cheaper in china. Helmets about the same. Give me a break. Screw baseball. I am so sick of people selling out America. All this "woke" culture and screaming for living wages and what not. Well that factory was paying a good wage to 72 local people. People moved to town to work there. So much more I want to say but I will end it with this. The hypocrisy in the American consumer is so rampant. Wanting to pay slave reparations and "living wage" and all this crap while everything they own or wear is produced in a foreign country with slave labor. You don't think the MLB in this example can afford an extra 40 bucks a helmet? Give me a break....

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    Atta boy. Preach it brother!

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    Your MLB-supported jobs off to a country with known, significant human rights issues, but you know keeping the All-Star game in Atlanta just wouldn't have been right.

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    The hypocrisy in the American consumer is so rampant.

    ^^^^ Think you hit the nail on the head on your whole post but especially this line.

    This gear will be made for American consumers without any concern for the conditions of the worker there or the environment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimcake View Post
    Just down right pissed off. 72 jobs in my town of 2500 people. Gone. Born in my small town 20 years ago was a composite company who makes softball/baseball bats, helmets, golf club shafts ect. That company was sold in its infant years to a couple investors. Who then sold to Rawlings sports. Then bought up by an investment group and the MLB. Major League Baseball. The helmets the MLB uses are made in my small town. Well not anymore. Sounds like they gave the plant 12 months and then are moving production to China. MLB, Major League Baseball "Americas past time" "baseball is as American as apple pie." How disgusting. Said they could make the bats $40 cheaper in china. Helmets about the same. Give me a break. Screw baseball. I am so sick of people selling out America. All this "woke" culture and screaming for living wages and what not. Well that factory was paying a good wage to 72 local people. People moved to town to work there. So much more I want to say but I will end it with this. The hypocrisy in the American consumer is so rampant. Wanting to pay slave reparations and "living wage" and all this crap while everything they own or wear is produced in a foreign country with slave labor. You don't think the MLB in this example can afford an extra 40 bucks a helmet? Give me a break....
    Spot on you are slimcake! This crap all started hot and heavy 35 years ago! Investors GREED eh, Vulcher Capitalism! Hurray for me, and to **** with you, is how a good elderly friend of mine would say? This with no repercussions! F'ing SUCKS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Spot on you are slimcake! This crap all started hot and heavy 35 years ago! Investors GREED eh, Vulcher Capitalism! Hurray for me, and to **** with you, is how a good elderly friend of mine would say? This with no repercussions! F'ing SUCKS!
    30 years ago I worked for Northern Tool and Equipment. They were Northern Hydraulics back then, and was started out of the owners garage building and selling pressure washers and log splitters. Then they ventured into catalog sales heavy when I was there. The sales people would be flying over to China regularly, to set up deals for all sorts of junk, and I mean JUNK. The returns department went from a hand written sheet that would be filled out weekly, to me coding an electronic version with a whole section of the warehouse designated for returns. The volume they were selling, was more than enough to offset any "throw away" product they would get back from knowledgeable customers. Those who don't know any better, didn't care, and they already made coin on them, which quite honestly was the vast majority of customers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xcr440 View Post
    30 years ago I worked for Northern Tool and Equipment. They were Northern Hydraulics back then, and was started out of the owners garage building and selling pressure washers and log splitters. Then they ventured into catalog sales heavy when I was there. The sales people would be flying over to China regularly, to set up deals for all sorts of junk, and I mean JUNK. The returns department went from a hand written sheet that would be filled out weekly, to me coding an electronic version with a whole section of the warehouse designated for returns. The volume they were selling, was more than enough to offset any "throw away" product they would get back from knowledgeable customers. Those who don't know any better, didn't care, and they already made coin on them, which quite honestly was the vast majority of customers.
    Sad part to alot of this is its consumer driven, we know the difference but joe blow consumer doesn't care, all they are worried about is how much more it will rack up their credit card or how much they will have to take out of their pocket. I have quit taking that box store throw away crap in, not worth working on or wasting time trying to track down parts. its really sad what most us consumers expect when buying products and it all starts with..."How much?" I love the "assembled in america" decals...is that supposed to make us feel better about the product? some certain person was right on track with the maga movement but again the average joe blow consumer just doesn't care.

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    I see that SK tools was just bought out by a Chinese company. 100 years of being made in the USA, I wonder how long that will last?

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    Quote Originally Posted by chunk06 View Post
    I see that SK tools was just bought out by a Chinese company. 100 years of being made in the USA, I wonder how long that will last?
    Probably be for sale at Lowes next to Craftsman for 50 cents in a year.

    It was sad to see the Radisson Hotel group now majority owned by Jin Jiang who is ultimately a Chinese government owned company.

    Bear

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    No idea when it flipped, but I sense that it happened sometime around when the whole 50's family picture dissolved too along with caring. People don't give two you know whats about where something comes from or how it got there. They just want it at a low price and right now. I work in mfg, I am aware of the constant battle with this. Luckily Graco has very strong MN roots and goes out of its way to make sure that continues. We are also in a failry niche industrial market so not many players in what we do. So many other things are just a commodity now (autos, electronics, etc.). Country is built on making the investment happy, small or big guy. If you want it to change tell people their 401k doesnt matter and that milk is $10/gallon.

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    China owns Smithfield Foods. Isn't it concerning that China now has control over a segment of the US food supply? Just read China also owns 200,000 acres of US farmland. Thought I had to learn Russian language, but now think Chinese might be better served.

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    Quote Originally Posted by highhertel View Post
    China owns Smithfield Foods. Isn't it concerning that China now has control over a segment of the US food supply? Just read China also owns 200,000 acres of US farmland. Thought I had to learn Russian language, but now think Chinese might be better served.
    just better hope they never put their hand out and say, Pay up! otherwise we will all be learning it. Haven't understood yet why we haven't learned our lesson yet.

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    The only part on our brand new John Deere 8 row ridged planter made in the USA is the seed boxes. Found out after we got it that it was assembled in Mexico. It has been a nightmare. If. My husband got 20 acres planted before something went wrong every time we were lucky. Then they wouldn't have the parts so we were shut down till the next day. It was an absolute disaster. Not looking forward to next spring. Told the dealer that if we had known it was 99% made out of country we never would have bought it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkHardPlayHrd View Post
    The only part on our brand new John Deere 8 row ridged planter made in the USA is the seed boxes. Found out after we got it that it was assembled in Mexico. It has been a nightmare. If. My husband got 20 acres planted before something went wrong every time we were lucky. Then they wouldn't have the parts so we were shut down till the next day. It was an absolute disaster. Not looking forward to next spring. Told the dealer that if we had known it was 99% made out of country we never would have bought it.
    Deere is very good at this. They are not any where close to the Company they used to be. However, they are very good at "buying out", to rid the the competition, cross border/across the pond, and increase the cost/pricing. The engine line that used to be in Dubuque, Ia., was the most reliable engine line Company wide. More so than even the Waterloo/Cedar Falls engines. From the foundry castings, to the finished engine product, most all in Dubuque. However the moved the Dubuque engine line to Mexico. Those engines are now widely known to be unreliable, as are the other component parts Deere produces, or obtains from foreign sources. Unlike the past, Deere sells a lot of junk now days! And at a premium price, eh! Kinze, Case/IH, and White planters now are as good, and better than Deere planters. Thank the Lord, Agco, obtained Precision Planting Sytems, and not John Deere!

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Deere is very good at this. They are not any where close to the Company they used to be. However, they are very good at "buying out", to rid the the competition, cross border/across the pond, and increase the cost/pricing. The engine line that used to be in Dubuque, Ia., was the most reliable engine line Company wide. More so than even the Waterloo/Cedar Falls engines. From the foundry castings, to the finished engine product, most all in Dubuque. However the moved the Dubuque engine line to Mexico. Those engines are now widely known to be unreliable, as are the other component parts Deere produces, or obtains from foreign sources. Unlike the past, Deere sells a lot of junk now days! And at a premium price, eh! Kinze, Case/IH, and White planters now are as good, and better than Deere planters. Thank the Lord, Agco, obtained Precision Planting Sytems, and not John Deere!
    My Hubby retired from Deere in Waterloo IA in 2007. The new hires don't get the benefits or pay like the old boys did back then, Deere in Waterloo can't even find people to hire now, go figure............

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoveMyDobe View Post
    My Hubby retired from Deere in Waterloo IA in 2007. The new hires don't get the benefits or pay like the old boys did back then, Deere in Waterloo can't even find people to hire now, go figure............
    I know exactly what you're saying! Many of the "new low wage employees" quit as they can find more reliable, better paying, better health care and retirement benefits elsewhere! Some years back, we figured the total compensation of the new hire, figured at max KIP pay available, and compared it to the CEO compensation from the year prior. The big dog's compensation was over 1700 times greater! Unreal, and absolutely F'ing egregious! I was there when Deere could not wait to get into China and crank up the factories! They willingly forked over anything, and everything the Chi Coms demanded. And in doing so, SOLD the USA OUT! Just more of the "GIANT SUCKING SOUND" we were so well warned of by H Ross Perot.
    Last edited by old abe; 07-25-2021 at 09:39 AM.

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    Doesn't it really all just come down to the money?

    It's no fun to admit, but it drives these decisions. It also drives our buying. I like my money and I have a hard time parting ways. It's hard to find a list of examples where decisions were made without first considering money. Profits drive decisions for business. Saving drives decisions for consumers. Right in between those two sit the skilled worker and craftspeople that are proud of their work.

    I try to find products that have a close connection to the workers. It is not easy. I do find it easier to part with my money when I see it going to the people that made and refined the product. Pride doesn't show up in a paycheck or corporate earnings, but it deserves my money.

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    Well said!

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    Quote Originally Posted by favoritos View Post
    Doesn't it really all just come down to the money?…
    Not just "the money", but it's all about the next quarterly report. All the focus is on short term profits, there is, and has been for some time, pathetically little interest in the long term.

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    As far as tools go what is left to buy that isn't junk? Snap On and what else?

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    Spot on! Years back I had a discussion with a past EVP at Deere, on what you say. He explained that when he was in the loop of decision makers, they set plans for 5, 10, and some 30 years out. He was very concerned as he could see what you related to was not a good thing what so ever. I think of that conversation often in the past 25 years!

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    Quote Originally Posted by favoritos View Post
    Doesn't it really all just come down to the money?

    It's no fun to admit, but it drives these decisions. It also drives our buying. I like my money and I have a hard time parting ways. It's hard to find a list of examples where decisions were made without first considering money. Profits drive decisions for business. Saving drives decisions for consumers. Right in between those two sit the skilled worker and craftspeople that are proud of their work.

    I try to find products that have a close connection to the workers. It is not easy. I do find it easier to part with my money when I see it going to the people that made and refined the product. Pride doesn't show up in a paycheck or corporate earnings, but it deserves my money.
    You are spot on here. And like anything else the the two ends are growing faster, and leaving the middle out of the equation. Too many people love affordable things because we have been trained to consume at a certain level, and then they want invenstments to grow at 10%. The bat company said look we can save $40 a bat which is multi-millions of dollars over the total quantity. Lots of other considerations like quality, service etc. but the savings outweigh the costs. They hire out the other things so they don't have to deal with it and the business model keeps going along.

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    I shall say it again, as it's called Vulcher Capitalism! And it works out just as VooDoo economics, eh!

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    I shall say it again, as it's called Vulcher Capitalism! And it works out just as VooDoo economics, eh!
    No matter anyone's political persuasion, it's getting hard to argue that tax policy, trade policy, environmental policy and immigration policy aren't all designed to shift profits to the top...

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    Bravo! You got it! VooDoo economic tax policies made it so lucrative to close down here, and move across the border, or across the pond, by greatly profiting, and greatly saving taxes by doing so! Just fact!

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Bravo! You got it! VooDoo economic tax policies made it so lucrative to close down here, and move across the border, or across the pond, by greatly profiting, and greatly saving taxes by doing so! Just fact!
    Yep, tax income much harder than cap gains/carried income, flood the nation with cheap labor, crack down on any pollution occurring here but not at all on the production of products made to be imported here, no fair labor requirements on imported products. No surprise on the results.

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    We had a leader willing to hold them accountable but hey guess it wasn't for the best. MLB can stick it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kip View Post
    We had a leader willing to hold them accountable but hey guess it wasn't for the best. MLB can stick it!
    AMEN to that!!! and if what we are dealing with now isn't a real slap in the face that we need to be less dependent of foreign countries or just outside of our borders and bring manufacturing back to our own soil I don't know what is. The previous leader had the right idea, the right plan and it was all undone in what??? a matter of weeks...months? INCREDIBLE!!!

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    Perhaps you look into the details of the Phony Phase 1 trade "agreement", as you have been taken by another RUSE!

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    The problem didn't start today, it started in the 1980s, when Ronald Reagan was president, and neoliberal economics were first making their mark on policy. Reagan and his ilk distrusted government and believed that the private sector could make the best decisions when left on its own. You've heard about this — it's called laissez faire economics.
    This ideology ultimately led to the financialization of the US corporation — the process of putting shareholders first, often at the expense of workers and consumers — and its emergence as an actor that takes resources from the economy rather than creating them. This, combined with a government zeal for lowering taxes rather than spending, means no one — not the government, and not the private sector — is investing enough in America to keep the economy strong across social classes.
    In short: Government cuts and changes in how corporations operate mean American workers are getting screwed by their own government and their own employers...









    1982 he made it legal for companies to repurchase their shares on the open market pretty much whenever they wanted. Previously, the SEC had considered this a form of stock price manipulation.
    This was also the era of the corporate raider, pushing companies to become leaner and more profitable as quickly as possible.
    The shareholder became the main thing for a company to worry about. Employees lost their status. Companies feared getting attacked, so they bent over backward to mollify the former at the expense of the latter. Those new stock repurchasing rules, for one thing, allowed them to shore up their defenses by buying back stock. But, of course, that meant spending money that could've gone to innovate, invest in new technology and equipment, or reward workers.

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    et's go back to the Reagan era. That was also the time Japanese manufacturers had developed a superior management style to their American rivals and, frankly, started eating our lunch.
    Instead of keeping a wall between management and workers, Japanese manufacturers adopted “organizational integration,” which put technical specialists and shop-floor workers together. The result was better products made faster in Japan, and jobs lost permanently in the United States.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saber1 View Post
    The problem didn't start today, it started in the 1980s, when Ronald Reagan was president, and neoliberal economics were first making their mark on policy. Reagan and his ilk distrusted government and believed that the private sector could make the best decisions when left on its own. You've heard about this — it's called laissez faire economics.
    This ideology ultimately led to the financialization of the US corporation — the process of putting shareholders first, often at the expense of workers and consumers — and its emergence as an actor that takes resources from the economy rather than creating them. This, combined with a government zeal for lowering taxes rather than spending, means no one — not the government, and not the private sector — is investing enough in America to keep the economy strong across social classes.
    In short: Government cuts and changes in how corporations operate mean American workers are getting screwed by their own government and their own employers...









    1982 he made it legal for companies to repurchase their shares on the open market pretty much whenever they wanted. Previously, the SEC had considered this a form of stock price manipulation.
    This was also the era of the corporate raider, pushing companies to become leaner and more profitable as quickly as possible.
    The shareholder became the main thing for a company to worry about. Employees lost their status. Companies feared getting attacked, so they bent over backward to mollify the former at the expense of the latter. Those new stock repurchasing rules, for one thing, allowed them to shore up their defenses by buying back stock. But, of course, that meant spending money that could've gone to innovate, invest in new technology and equipment, or reward workers.
    Absolutely SPOT ON you are Saber1! ALL TRUE! Just compare Eisenhower's economic, tax policies, and the building the US Economy, to that of Reagan's many Destructive failures. Such as, VooDoo Economics, disastrous, and which always leads to Economic Recession, Co./Corp.Stock/Shareholder policies, and Vulchur Capitalism, and the Demise/Destruction of Employee Pension Plans! All of these were a Guaranteed Demise, and Destruction of the USA's Economic Juggernaut, and the American Working class people! ALL TRUE FACTS! H Ross Perot absolutely knew this, adamantly despised the Republi"CONS for these reasons!

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    Its hard to get people to see the big picture 1 President isnt going to change the system we need big Policy changes to be made that would give the balance of power back to the people Both house are filled with lawyers and millionaires they dont represent us anymore.And i remember that Ross Perot debate where he said "that sucking sound u hear is your jobs going to Mexico" He was absolutely spot on he was an odd fella but i think would of done a good job.I have also looked back at our corporate tax laws and regulations pre Kennedy and yes the tax rates were higher and the regulations were tougher and it was one of the most prosperous times.Like the Titanic its going to take a while to turn around,In the meantime they divide us with these wedge issues like Abortion,Guns,Race theory etc so the power remains with corporations and big money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saber1 View Post
    Its hard to get people to see the big picture 1 President isnt going to change the system we need big Policy changes to be made that would give the balance of power back to the people Both house are filled with lawyers and millionaires they dont represent us anymore.And i remember that Ross Perot debate where he said "that sucking sound u hear is your jobs going to Mexico" He was absolutely spot on he was an odd fella but i think would of done a good job.I have also looked back at our corporate tax laws and regulations pre Kennedy and yes the tax rates were higher and the regulations were tougher and it was one of the most prosperous times.Like the Titanic its going to take a while to turn around,In the meantime they divide us with these wedge issues like Abortion,Guns,Race theory etc so the power remains with corporations and big money.
    I couldn't agree more with what you have posted! Perhaps the REAL reason Eisenhower reverted, changed his mind, and decided he had to run for POTUS, would shock people, start them to open there eyes, and ears to what is REAL? It was all about what was happening within the Republican party!

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    In 1992, already 30+ years in IT myself, I found a lot to like about that crazy Texas Banty Rooster, H Ross Perot, as wacky as he was. So much so that I voted for him and thereby threw away my vote (along with 19,000,000+ other folks), and thus helped to enable the election of Bill Clinton! Goes ta show ya, third party candidates in US elections generally have about the chance of a snowball in Phoenix!
    "Perot, in his speech at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., on March 18, 1992 about Congress: — "This city has become a town filled with sound bites, shell games, handlers, media stuntmen who posture, create images, talk, shoot off Roman candles, but don't ever accomplish anything. We need deeds, not words, in this city."
    So true, and it has gotten even worse.
    Last edited by frnash; 08-06-2021 at 04:22 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frnash View Post
    In 1992, already 30+ years in IT myself, I found a lot to like about that crazy Texas Banty Rooster, H Ross Perot, as wacky as he was. So much so that I voted for him and thereby threw away my vote (along with 19,000,000+ other folks), and thus helped to enable the election of Bill Clinton! Goes ta show ya, third party candidates in US elections generally have about the chance of a snowball in Phoenix!So true, and it has gotten even worse.
    Agree with all except for the reasoning that those of us who cast our vote for Perot, and thus elected Bill Clinton. Too many working class Republican American families had been devastated by Reaganomics/VooDoo Economic Policies, that resulted in there jobs being lost across the border/over seas, and major wage/income reduction. They elected Bill Clinton.

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    Quote Originally Posted by saber1 View Post
    Its hard to get people to see the big picture 1 President isnt going to change the system we need big Policy changes to be made that would give the balance of power back to the people Both house are filled with lawyers and millionaires they dont represent us anymore.And i remember that Ross Perot debate where he said "that sucking sound u hear is your jobs going to Mexico" He was absolutely spot on he was an odd fella but i think would of done a good job.I have also looked back at our corporate tax laws and regulations pre Kennedy and yes the tax rates were higher and the regulations were tougher and it was one of the most prosperous times.Like the Titanic its going to take a while to turn around,In the meantime they divide us with these wedge issues like Abortion,Guns,Race theory etc so the power remains with corporations and big money.
    The only problem with this thought is the high tax rates and tough regulations drove manufacturers away. The prosperous times of the Kennedy era was still 100% world war 2 aftermath.  American factories produced while the rest of the world rebuilt.  Once the rest of the world caught up jobs left BECAUSE of high taxes, tougher regulations, and higher labor costs. Until there is an even playing field jobs will leave. Entice manufacturers to build in the U.S. and have more quality jobs than workers and you will see the american worker have power like never before.  And a real worker shortage, not an artificial one with higher unemployment checks that don't end along with rent moratoriums.    



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    Quote Originally Posted by renegade View Post

    The only problem with this thought is the high tax rates and tough regulations drove manufacturers away. The prosperous times of the Kennedy era was still 100% world war 2 aftermath.* American factories produced while the rest of the world rebuilt.* Once the rest of the world caught up jobs left BECAUSE of high taxes, tougher regulations, and higher labor costs. Until there is an even playing field jobs will leave. Entice manufacturers to build in the U.S. and have more quality jobs than workers and you will see the american worker have power like never before.* And a real worker shortage, not an artificial one with higher unemployment checks that don't end along with rent moratoriums.* **

    Reagan's VooDoo Trickle Down Economic tax policies not only allowed the Cross Border, Overseas, moves of our manufacturing/jobs, they enabled them. Lower wage incomes then became the result. Mr Perot explained all of this! Big Business Greatly profiting on the Reagan tax policies by doing so, and the ability to profit off of Phony Bankruptcies also created, allowed by his policies. Corrupt, Vulture Capitalism ran rampant, uncontrolled Phony mergers, and buyouts, bringing on forced, slashed wages, lowered income, and many more jobs lost! History provides all the facts!

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    i too, elected Clinton by voting Perot, allowing Clinton to win with just 43%

    i can't do much, but please, i implore every one to look into ranked voting. Maine is in, on a federal level, N.Y.C. and others in on a local level.

    50% to win, more choices, what is the down side?
    Last edited by jime; 08-08-2021 at 01:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jime View Post
    i too, elected Clinton by voting Perot, allowing Clinton to win with just 43%

    i can't do much, but please, i implore every one to look into ranked voting. Maine is in, on a federal level, N.Y.C. and others in on a local level.

    50% to win, more choices, what is the down side?
    You are wrong, Reagan Trickeldown, VooDoo Economics elected Clinton! The proof is in the pudding, eh!

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    well Abe at least we can agree 57% voted against Clinton. and this would never be an issue with ranked voting for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jime View Post
    well Abe at least we can agree 57% voted against Clinton. and this would never be an issue with ranked voting for the future.
     I'm all in if it confounds the big cheat we just witnessed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post

    *I'm all in if it confounds the big cheat we just witnessed.
    You haven't seen anything as yet. Just wait until they get all the facts on 1-6-2021, eh! And there's a whole lot more too!

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    It makes no difference. The only reason China has not squashed us like a big is that we still have more boom booms. Our wishy washy political structure is no match for China or Putin who don't waste time with elections or global warming or pollution or human rights. They are in it for the long haul. And they will win. it makes no difference if you vote or who you vote for. But go ahead and expound on social media if it makes you feel better. It also makes no difference who did this and who did that 40 years ago. This is the here and now. Things move exponentially quicker. The deal was done about 25 years ago. It just has to play out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    It makes no difference. The only reason China has not squashed us like a big is that we still have more boom booms. Our wishy washy political structure is no match for China or Putin who don't waste time with elections or global warming or pollution or human rights. They are in it for the long haul. And they will win. it makes no difference if you vote or who you vote for. But go ahead and expound on social media if it makes you feel better. It also makes no difference who did this and who did that 40 years ago. This is the here and now. Things move exponentially quicker. The deal was done about 25 years ago. It just has to play out.
    So our Founders Dream, and hard work, gets thrown under the bus, for Fascism?

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    So our Founders Dream, and hard work, gets thrown under the bus, for Fascism?
    Ross Perot has left the building....time to move along, but its fun to say the guy who couldn't win would have saved us all.....lol....Trump started to peel the onion and we all witnessed the violent response from them( dems, pubs, media) who stood to lose part of their corrupt existence.


    BTW the unions during the early 80's dug in and refused to stoop to 3rd world wage rates. That and the beginning of the building of HUGE cargo ships to bring ALL of us our cheap Chinese stuff has everyone here in the USA guilty as **** of sending jobs out of the country.
    You see Abe YOU are at fault as much as anyone. For the love of money we all gravitate to the super cheap throw away junk that china eagerly supplies us.....And guess what....now that cheap Chinese junk ain't near as crappy as it once was.
    Last edited by snobuilder; 08-09-2021 at 09:22 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post
    Ross Perot has left the building....time to move along, but its fun to say the guy who couldn't win would have saved us all.....lol....Trump started to peel the onion and we all witnessed the violent response from them( dems, pubs, media) who stood to lose part of their corrupt existence.


    BTW the unions during the early 80's dug in and refused to stoop to 3rd world wage rates. That and the beginning of the building of HUGE cargo ships to bring ALL of us our cheap Chinese stuff has everyone here in the USA guilty as **** of sending jobs out of the country.
    You see Abe YOU are at fault as much as anyone. For the love of money we all gravitate to the super cheap throw away junk that china eagerly supplies us.....And guess what....now that cheap Chinese junk ain't near as crappy as it once was.
    Mostly agree. However where would we have been, had the USA labor caved to third world wages, eh? Disaster. When I was growing up, it was Japan, then Korea producing the "cheap junk", eh! And we didn't lower our wages then either? VooDoo tax policies/laws were a HUGE benefit, and major contributor, to China's rampant gain. Reagan pretty much walked away from Russia's overall demise, such as in order to get in bed with the "rising China"! This as US Big Business, had some very BIG plans on China, eh?

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Mostly agree. However where would we have been, had the USA labor caved to third world wages, eh? Disaster. When I was growing up, it was Japan, then Korea producing the "cheap junk", eh! And we didn't lower our wages then either? VooDoo tax policies/laws were a HUGE benefit, and major contributor, to China's rampant gain. Reagan pretty much walked away from Russia's overall demise, such as in order to get in bed with the "rising China"! This as US Big Business, had some very BIG plans on China, eh?
    I recall Nixon was the one who began the support for China as a sleeping (starving) giant who without some sort of support would eventually do something drastic to the rest of the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by snobuilder View Post

    I recall Nixon was the one who began the support for China as a sleeping (starving) giant who without some sort of support would eventually do something drastic to the rest of the world.
    Yeah, well, something as that as I remember. U.S. Big Business interest where the driving force behind all that. Perhaps the source of the cheapest labor wasn't their first thoughts? However, they soon seen what was available if they could only get to it, eh! My wife's oldest brother was in on the second round group of US people to go to China as part of a major Ag Corporation.

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    The big issue now is LABOR. We have to bring 9 Mexicans up every year to work on our Tree Farm.

    Same deal we cannot move 500 acres of trees or we probably would.

    No one applies for a Job and we are over the $15 per hr demand rate.

    Some people need to get Hungary in this Country. That will not happen with what's happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by longtrack View Post
    … Some people need to get Hungary in this
    Country. …
    Where ya gonna put it, in da UP? Dat ain't gonna work,
    Hungary is about 35,920 square miles. and da UP is less than half that size, at 16,377 square miles (Insert wicked devilish emoji here.)

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    I was wondering how long it would take, eh! Love it!

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    The Chamber of Commerce is the biggest PAC in DC contributing to all who are in alignment with their view. They have been Anti American while enriching themselves with Chinese money. The CoC has directed the language in all trade agreements for decades at the expense of Americans. At the same time both sides of the political party have had their hand out behind their back for the payout. Also to note is the fact the Congress(men) have not written a bill in decades. All new bills coming into Congress are written by law firms and handed to the Congressman supporting it. Once the bill reaches Congress, the pork is added so it passes. This is where trillions are added to muster the votes.


    Here is a fact, the Patriot act was never read because Congress did not receive the bill in their hands until approximately 2 days prior to vote. How many actually read it in its entirety? ZERO!! Remember Pelosi; We have to pass the bill to know what's in it! The same happened with the infrastructure bill now on the desk. The status quo (crooked politicians) had BILLIONS of dollars on the table to vote on. THEN TRUMP came along and squashed it all. He was the long shot that won. Donald put a stop to the stacks of bills that enriched all in politics, big tech, military, and a host of other fields. Those billions of dollars not flowing into the politicians hands pissed them off and retaliation ensued. Those pending laws they were trying to pass now became worthless sitting on their desks.


    Trump was onto all the grift in DC and slowed it considerably. He took on the establishment for the average American so they could have a better life. He paid dearly.


    The road to China started a long time ago, and trying to piece all this together is difficult for myself and others. It goes way deeper than the average couch potato is willing to research. Here is a link to the CoC and its influence on politics.


    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...er+of+commerce

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    Let's hope the Commander in thief doesn't roll out the vaccine passports for interstate travel. I'd bet your snowmobiling and quality of life will hit the brick wall when everything collapses. And don't forget that the unvaxxed are domestic terrorists, Afghanistan is lost, and the borders wide open. You can't make this $hit up faster than it rolls out from our Dementia patient.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...at-ahead-9-11/

    https://www.https://www.thegatewaypu...ration-moment/
    Last edited by racerxnet; 08-15-2021 at 03:37 PM.

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    You might want to do some research on ALEC basically a bunch of Politicians in bed with Corporations and feeding them legislation that does nothing good for the rest of us  https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ch/3162357002/

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    Quote Originally Posted by racerxnet View Post
    The Chamber of Commerce is the biggest PAC in DC contributing to all who are in alignment with their view. They have been Anti American while enriching themselves with Chinese money. The CoC has directed the language in all trade agreements for decades at the expense of Americans. At the same time both sides of the political party have had their hand out behind their back for the payout. Also to note is the fact the Congress(men) have not written a bill in decades. All new bills coming into Congress are written by law firms and handed to the Congressman supporting it. Once the bill reaches Congress, the pork is added so it passes. This is where trillions are added to muster the votes.





    Here is a fact, the Patriot act was never read because Congress did not receive the bill in their hands until approximately 2 days prior to vote. How many actually read it in its entirety? ZERO!! Remember Pelosi; We have to pass the bill to know what's in it! The same happened with the infrastructure bill now on the desk. The status quo (crooked politicians) had BILLIONS of dollars on the table to vote on. THEN TRUMP came along and squashed it all. He was the long shot that won. Donald put a stop to the stacks of bills that enriched all in politics, big tech, military, and a host of other fields. Those billions of dollars not flowing into the politicians hands pissed them off and retaliation ensued. Those pending laws they were trying to pass now became worthless sitting on their desks.





    Trump was onto all the grift in DC and slowed it considerably. He took on the establishment for the average American so they could have a better life. He paid dearly.





    The road to China started a long time ago, and trying to piece all this together is difficult for myself and others. It goes way deeper than the average couch potato is willing to research. Here is a link to the CoC and its influence on politics.





    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...+commerce" target="_blank">https://theconservativetreehouse.com/?s=chamber+of+commerce
     


    Yes, even for the politically disconnected, its real obvious that Trumps attempt at peeling the onion of corruption got the thieves to do the unthinkable deed of ruining our only avenue to peaceful control of government.....OUR INDIVIDUAL VOTES.



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    Quote Originally Posted by saber1 View Post
    You might want to do some research on ALEC basically a bunch of Politicians in bed with Corporations and feeding them legislation that does nothing good for the rest of us* https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ch/3162357002/
    All true fact!

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    Quote Originally Posted by racerxnet View Post
    The Chamber of Commerce is the biggest PAC in DC contributing to all who are in alignment with their view. They have been Anti American while enriching themselves with Chinese money. The CoC has directed the language in all trade agreements for decades at the expense of Americans. At the same time both sides of the political party have had their hand out behind their back for the payout. Also to note is the fact the Congress(men) have not written a bill in decades. All new bills coming into Congress are written by law firms and handed to the Congressman supporting it. Once the bill reaches Congress, the pork is added so it passes. This is where trillions are added to muster the votes.


    Here is a fact, the Patriot act was never read because Congress did not receive the bill in their hands until approximately 2 days prior to vote. How many actually read it in its entirety? ZERO!! Remember Pelosi; We have to pass the bill to know what's in it! The same happened with the infrastructure bill now on the desk. The status quo (crooked politicians) had BILLIONS of dollars on the table to vote on. THEN TRUMP came along and squashed it all. He was the long shot that won. Donald put a stop to the stacks of bills that enriched all in politics, big tech, military, and a host of other fields. Those billions of dollars not flowing into the politicians hands pissed them off and retaliation ensued. Those pending laws they were trying to pass now became worthless sitting on their desks.


    Trump was onto all the grift in DC and slowed it considerably. He took on the establishment for the average American so they could have a better life. He paid dearly.


    The road to China started a long time ago, and trying to piece all this together is difficult for myself and others. It goes way deeper than the average couch potato is willing to research. Here is a link to the CoC and its influence on politics.


    https://theconservativetreehouse.com...er+of+commerce
    Agree with all except for your false thesis on the Conman. However, you are just one of so many, many, who were sucked into his cons, ruses! Perhaps just as wishful thinking prevailed, eh! Dig into the details, and research what's real. He's been nothing but a Conman his whole life.

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    Hi All!

    No question this one has walked into the political post realm, but it has not gotten ugly, so I have not removed it. Plus, the summer is growing old and everyone is starting to think about the colder nights and then days and then snow ahead. So keep it going like it has and all will be good.

    I will be cracking back down on the political posts once the site starts to wake back up again!

    -John

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    I was wondering how long it would take, eh! Love it!
    Surprised he let "vulcher" slip through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by old abe View Post
    Agree with all except for your false thesis on the Conman. However, you are just one of so many, many, who were sucked into his cons, ruses! Perhaps just as wishful thinking prevailed, eh! Dig into the details, and research what's real. He's been nothing but a Conman his whole life.

    I am not into the Left wing dogma of politics. Nobody cares about Critical Race Theory, BLM (Burn Loot murder), and the White man thrashing. Look around Abe, and see the reality facing all of us. Is slow Joe making this better? NOT... You should at least try to provide some factual evidence of the falsehoods Trump made within the context of what he was trying to convey. I am not going to spell it out for you regarding the impeachment of Trump or the unmasking thru the FISA court which should never have happened. You can head over to the conservative tree house as well as .gov for factual evidence. Use the search function.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/

    Right now we have runaway inflation, a military that is ineffective; and General Miley more interested in LGBT and CRT. Afghanistan is in tatters and the fool in chief is finally coming out to see his shadow tonight. Like Tucker Carlson said" When do we start holding these politicians and the military accountable". Millions of dollars worth of buildings and infrastructure were destroyed by Left wing radicals. You know Abe, it's those fires raging in the background during Trumps tenure that CNN said was peaceful protests. But the protesters on capitol hill seem to be more dangerous?

    Like everyone around Biden said, He can screw up a $hit sandwich. He hasn't done a damn thing in 50 years. Did you expect better after the election? Has he united the country as he said he would, or has it gotten worse with the rhetoric from the White house. Don't forget the crackhead son and the stolen laptop story that got buried like Jimmy Hoffa!

    Mathew 6:24 comes to mind. “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

    I can post a load of links to back it up if you want to backpedal Abe, but I believe most here are smart enough to see the damage done to this country from the divide and conquer tactics being used. Look at social media and the censorship of the conservative views. You want to call that freedom Abe? The squashing of scientific debate over Covid from the very people who created the vax? Freedom?

    All of this has been from your favorite commander in thief. I'll also wager that if the vax cards for interstate travel are implemented, John's site, Michigan, Wisconsin, or any other snow destination won't have much to write about. Once the truckers bail on this crap we will all be up the creek. There won't be any of them willing to cross state lines if they refuse the jab. And I am sure there are millions of them that won't.

    And don't forget to turn your back and take a knee when the National Anthem is played. Ya gotta love the Left wing politics.

    There is the old adage, If you don't believe in the same freedoms for your enemies as your friends, then you don't believe in freedom at all.
    The first casualty in all wars is the truth!
    The media that was suppose to protect freedom and democracy has become the enemy.
    Last edited by racerxnet; 08-16-2021 at 02:55 PM.

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    Yes!!!!! What he said!!!!!!!!

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    well said RacerX. I gave the guy a chance and he failed in his first week. The media is the enemy. I can't believe everything that is swept under the rug like Hunter

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    Quote Originally Posted by racerxnet View Post
    I am not into the Left wing dogma of politics. Nobody cares about Critical Race Theory, BLM (Burn Loot murder), and the White man thrashing. Look around Abe, and see the reality facing all of us. Is slow Joe making this better? NOT... You should at least try to provide some factual evidence of the falsehoods Trump made within the context of what he was trying to convey. I am not going to spell it out for you regarding the impeachment of Trump or the unmasking thru the FISA court which should never have happened. You can head over to the conservative tree house as well as .gov for factual evidence. Use the search function.

    https://theconservativetreehouse.com/

    Right now we have runaway inflation, a military that is ineffective; and General Miley more interested in LGBT and CRT. Afghanistan is in tatters and the fool in chief is finally coming out to see his shadow tonight. Like Tucker Carlson said" When do we start holding these politicians and the military accountable". Millions of dollars worth of buildings and infrastructure were destroyed by Left wing radicals. You know Abe, it's those fires raging in the background during Trumps tenure that CNN said was peaceful protests. But the protesters on capitol hill seem to be more dangerous?

    Like everyone around Biden said, He can screw up a $hit sandwich. He hasn't done a damn thing in 50 years. Did you expect better after the election? Has he united the country as he said he would, or has it gotten worse with the rhetoric from the White house. Don't forget the crackhead son and the stolen laptop story that got buried like Jimmy Hoffa!

    Mathew 6:24 comes to mind. “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

    I can post a load of links to back it up if you want to backpedal Abe, but I believe most here are smart enough to see the damage done to this country from the divide and conquer tactics being used. Look at social media and the censorship of the conservative views. You want to call that freedom Abe? The squashing of scientific debate over Covid from the very people who created the vax? Freedom?

    All of this has been from your favorite commander in thief. I'll also wager that if the vax cards for interstate travel are implemented, John's site, Michigan, Wisconsin, or any other snow destination won't have much to write about. Once the truckers bail on this crap we will all be up the creek. There won't be any of them willing to cross state lines if they refuse the jab. And I am sure there are millions of them that won't.

    And don't forget to turn your back and take a knee when the National Anthem is played. Ya gotta love the Left wing politics.

    There is the old adage, If you don't believe in the same freedoms for your enemies as your friends, then you don't believe in freedom at all.
    The first casualty in all wars is the truth!
    The media that was suppose to protect freedom and democracy has become the enemy.
    Two things can be true at the same time: Biden being an awful and fraudulent president (on pace to beat out carter for worst in recent memory), and Trump as President accomplishing very little of what he campaigned on. He knew how to play the crowds, but how much wall did he get built? 12 miles? Drain the swamp but put his corrupt unelected son in law in charge? Stand up for common people but allow Paul Ryan to dominate the agenda for the 2 years they had the house and senate and accomplish little beyond the corporate tax cut? Wasn't like he was a fiscal conservative. Sure he signed the normal executive orders but those were reversed on day 1 of the "big guy."

    I don't disagree with anything you said on biden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by russholio View Post
    Surprised he let "vulcher" slip through.
    Yes, I saw that, passed on it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by racerxnet View Post
    … Afghanistan is in tatters …
    I have regularly watched the Sunday morning "talking heads" TV programs since the some of the earliest "Meet the Press with Lawrence Spivak", circa 1966. Yesterday the "talking heads" were of course all about:
    “Taliban will soon claim control of Afghanistan” and “Afghan President flees as Taliban enter Kabul.”
    Then there was US Secretary of State, Tony Blinken, making the rounds on every one of those talking head programs, behaving ever so much like a cat in a litter box, blatantly, pathetically, desperately, furiously trying to cover up the mess that we left there. It’s pretty damn sickening.

    After 12+ years in Iraq (March 20,2003 – December 15, 2011 & 30 December 2013 – 9 December 2017) and the on-going 20+ years in Afghanistan. I honestly think “enough’s enough”, and we do need to end this middle eastern futility.

    Unlike WWII, which was a "traditional war” among nation states, with “front lines”, uniformed troops and the like. Iraq and Afghanistan (Viet Nam as well) were guerilla wars, with “irregulars” that are hard to differentiate from the civilians whom they infiltrate. We don’t seem to be able to handle those nearly as well.

    Yes, this is going to wind up being Biden’s “Albatross”.

    This hasty transition from Afghanistan to "Talibanistan" has strengthened my feeling from the early days of Dubya’s attack on Iraq, the futility of Afghanistan, the belligerence of Iran and the insanity of Syria. To wit:

    There are some parts of the middle east that are not only irretrievably ungovernable but ongoing threats to world peace. I'm severely tempted to suggest that the ultimate solution for them would be to turn them into vast glowing uninhabitable areas in the desert for several millennia, not unlike Chernobyl and Pripyat. Unrealistic, unpopular, and worse of course, but the thought does recur.
    Last edited by frnash; 08-16-2021 at 06:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frnash View Post
    I have regularly watched the Sunday morning "talking heads" TV programs since the some of the earliest "Meet the Press with Lawrence Spivak", circa 1966. Yesterday the "talking heads" were of course all about:Then there was US Secretary of State, Tony Blinken, making the rounds on every one of those talking head programs, behaving ever so much like a cat in a litter box, blatantly, pathetically, desperately, furiously trying to cover up the mess that we left there. It’s pretty damn sickening.

    After 12+ years in Iraq (March 20,2003 – December 15, 2011 & 30 December 2013 – 9 December 2017) and the on-going 20+ years in Afghanistan. I honestly think “enough’s enough”, and we do need to end this middle eastern futility.

    Unlike WWII, which was a "traditional war” among nation states, with “front lines”, uniformed troops and the like. Iraq and Afghanistan (Viet Nam as well) were guerilla wars, with “irregulars” that are hard to differentiate from the civilians whom they infiltrate. We don’t seem to be able to handle those nearly as well.

    Yes, this is going to wind up being Biden’s “Albatross”.

    This hasty transition from Afghanistan to "Talibanistan" has strengthened my feeling from the early days of Dubya’s attack on Iraq, the futility of Afghanistan, the belligerence of Iran and the insanity of Syria. To wit:

    There are some parts of the middle east that are not only irretrievably ungovernable but ongoing threats to world peace. I'm severely tempted to suggest that the ultimate solution for them would be to turn them into vast glowing uninhabitable areas in the desert for several millennia, not unlike Chernobyl and Pripyat. Unrealistic, unpopular, and worse of course, but the thought does recur.
    I would agree on WW2 being a different war, but all others are a farce.

    Smedley Butler on Interventionism
    -- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.
    War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.
    I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.
    I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.
    It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.
    I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.
    I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.
    During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.

    We have not created 1 democracy through the end of a gun barrel. This isn't about democracy period. It's about natural resources we can take for a dime on the dollar.

    Gilbert describes a discussion with Goering on how a government may force people to go to war, to which Goering responded: “…It is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.”

    “The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders...tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.”
    -- Hermann Goring

    Same propaganda, different country. My my how history repeats itself.
    Last edited by racerxnet; 08-16-2021 at 07:35 PM.

  68. #68
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    If you want a good primer on how the media is connected to the State department and a arm of the government you should at least gloss over some of the information at this link. We have all seen the meme from various news casters spouting the same propaganda lines across different stations. This tells you the how, why, and end result of how we got to this point.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitic...nda-multiplier

  69. #69
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    I will respectively disagree with frnash in his statement that the US military does not seem to do well against 'irregular' adversaries like the Vietnamese and the Taliban. There is not a fighting force or terrain anywhere in the world that the US military cannot defeat. iF GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY. Getting rid of the cave dwelling Taliban is no different than getting rid of the Japanese on Iwo Jima and we accomplished that with far inferior weaponry. It is the resolve of the politicians or lack thereof that limit the effectiveness of the armed forces. If left to themselves the generals on the ground have a plan and the resources to eradicate any enemy. 20 years of wishy washy political policy was finally instructional enough to show the Taliban that we were never in it to win it. Brute force is all they understand. We absolutely had them on the run and then we just quit. They have zero respect for that. Both parties are to blame. And now it is lost for good. China will get the rare minerals an Afghanistan. And the stone age Taliban will oppress women and children and ISIS will flourish. And the rest of the world will take notice. It is just a matter of time before XI waltzes into Taiwan. Who is going to stop him? The US????? Yeah right.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by frnash View Post
    Yes, I saw that, passed on it.
    That's not like you. Feeling okay?

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by racerxnet View Post
    … Smedley Butler on Interventionism -- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC. …
    A very interesting perspective from a retired USMC MG!
    Quote Originally Posted by grub View Post
    I will respectively disagree with frnash in his statement that the US military does not seem to do well against 'irregular' adversaries like the Vietnamese and the Taliban. …
    I accept that argument. To be precise, I should have said that the politicians have not allowed the military to handle the last several guerilla wars, dealing with “irregulars”. In addition, SecDef Robert Strange McNamara comes to mind from the Vietnam era.
    Records from the Lyndon Johnson Library have indicated that McNamara may have misled Johnson on the purported attack on a U.S. Navy destroyer by allegedly withholding recommendations from US Pacific Commanders against executing airstrikes.

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post
    Hi All!

    No question this one has walked into the political post realm, but it has not gotten ugly, so I have not removed it. Plus, the summer is growing old and everyone is starting to think about the colder nights and then days and then snow ahead. So keep it going like it has and all will be good.

    I will be cracking back down on the political posts once the site starts to wake back up again!

    -John
    Hey John,
    I really think it’s time to pull the plug on this political thread my friend, it is turning into a runaway freight train that has absolutely nothing to do with snowmobiling

  73. #73
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    I'm still in shock that people actually think one political party is better than the other, and that politicians care about anybody, except themselves and whoever bought them.
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

  74. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by snomoman View Post
    Hey John,

    I really think it’s time to pull the plug on this political thread my friend, it is turning into a runaway freight train that has absolutely nothing to do with snowmobiling
    You are probably right, but it also seems to be a circle jerk that is therapeutic and is allowing some to vent some steam and feed their ego. So as mentioned, I will kick it to the curb in around 2 weeks...if it's still around by then!

    -John



  75. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    I'm still in shock that people actually think one political party is better than the other, and that politicians care about anybody, except themselves and whoever bought them.
    Best post on this thread yet. Someone said "our" reps in DC should wear patches on their jackets like they do in NASCAR, so we know who they are working for.

  76. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    Best post on this thread yet. Someone said "our" reps in DC should wear patches on their jackets like they do in NASCAR, so we know who they are working for.
    Agreed!

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post

    You are probably right, but it also seems to be a circle jerk that is therapeutic and is allowing some to vent some steam and feed their ego. So as mentioned, I will kick it to the curb in around 2 weeks...if it's still around by then!

    -John

    Holy poop John, that actually had me laughing out loud! Noice one!
    Lake Effect Snow, my three favorite words.

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skylar View Post
    I'm still in shock that people actually think one political party is better than the other, and that politicians care about anybody, except themselves and whoever bought them.
    X 1000. Nailed it.

  79. #79
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    Some of you may have an extra 20 minutes.....

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09maaUaRT4M

  80. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkHardPlayHrd View Post
    X 1000. Nailed it.
    Absolutely X 2!

  81. #81

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    Slimcake where you go? Yes awhile back we seen your comment removed! Looks like we lost another great member with positive input and a business owner. Many others have signed off too. Come on back just the way of the world, people's feelings get hurt to easily with the truth. 

  82. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidoolouie View Post
    Slimcake where you go? Yes awhile back we seen your comment removed! Looks like we lost another great member with positive input and a business owner. Many others have signed off too. Come on back just the way of the world, people's feelings get hurt to easily with the truth. 
    AGREED!! Truth or opinions we are all entitled to what we see as and or our own, some more passionate than others, its wrong to alienate or remove peoples opinions or views just because the narrative might not be in line with their own. Slimcake and others that may have strayed because of this...come back!

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by euphoric1 View Post
    AGREED!! Truth or opinions we are all entitled to what we see as and or our own, some more passionate than others, its wrong to alienate or remove peoples opinions or views just because the narrative might not be in line with their own. Slimcake and others that may have strayed because of this...come back!
    I could not be in better agreement with this. However, the board has it's simple rules and when one goes beyond them, there is a consequence. Just like most preach here. Responsibility and consequences. For the record. I did not ban him for good. He chose to step away. He is welcome back anytime. He's a good guy.



  84. #84
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    He's busy playing with his new Ram Laramie..what's next a Ski-Doo?

    Bear

  85. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Administrator View Post

    I could not be in better agreement with this. However, the board has it's simple rules and when one goes beyond them, there is a consequence. Just like most preach here. Responsibility and consequences. For the record. I did not ban him for good. He chose to step away. He is welcome back anytime. He's a good guy.

    This seems to have come from the top. When the admin edits posts and deletes my reply I'm out.
    Tell me what rule I broke? You said in your now edited post that it's the same 5 or six guys posting in a circle jerk and I commented that I was just trying to keep your antiquated site around. You must have taken offense to that. Welp I said it then and I will say it now. I'm out. Geez. Feel like am og around here but at least I'm man enough to apologize when I f up and not edit things to make it look all better. That's a bs move john. Bs. Good luck.

  86. #86
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    Millennials and younger gens love censorship, cancel culture, lack of free speech and socialism. Some people actually take a stand against. All I know is, I got 10x the response on HCS.com regarding my sled comparison. Thoughtful and helpful responses too. Son advertised my sled easily on FB marketplace.#antiquated

  87. #87
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    I see your point, my oldest moved to Seattle 4 years ago and has turn to the lib side(still would give him both kidneys) however, my middle and youngest are still about freedom(s) and working for your wants/needs in life. Not a fan of the theory of of everyone gets a trophy!! IMO there’s no better feeling than earning what you have.

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